The green house gas issue- to Witt; that the world climate (current heating period within an interglacial) is resultant form the creation of massive CO2 from anthropomorphic sources. – The current global warming issue and in intimate link with ETS (emissions trading schemes) and Cap and Trade schemes – appears more concerned with the creation of a derivative trading system. (A scheme to create a financial system)

Granted if global warming is anthropomorphic there must be a mechanism to combat it. However is this mechanism the correct one?

Also the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Control) massive contingent of “scientists” supported the anthropomorphic viewpoint for the global warming.

To what extent did the panel address the solar factors being essentially responsible for the warming cycle(s)?

I've seen some of the IPCC report. It is dense and long and couched in language not conducive to clear understanding but I didn't see much about solar cycles or references to geological records/ice core records/ sea bottom records. There is a lot of bureaucratic language and pages of simple explanations run amok. A typical government report in other words.

They base their conclusions on satellite data and land based temperature recording stations. While the sat data,is accurate,it is extremely short term. The land based temps are wildly inaccurate and gathered in non scientific fashion. (some of the stations have been moved several times, I know of one located in a college parking lot, on asphalt and this is in a desert climate)

They basically said that yes, there has been some warming due to solar activity but it wasn't relevant. The geological/ice/sea bottom evidence is ignored probably because it doesn't agree with their conclusions.

Scientists who DO pay attention to the long term indicators and evidence agree:
is the Earth warming...maybe
will it get warmer...possibly
is the CO2 load in the atmosphere responsible for the warming?...no (conversely, most seem to agree that CO2 contributes more too COOLING than warming)
they further go on to say we have a fifty fifty chance of either cooling or warming happening next...there's just no way to tell

so...is algore trying to stiff you out of money by using fear mongering?
you bet
is the IPCC about something other than global climate?
you bet
Are Americans the target(s)in both cases
say amen
the big question is why...
their agenda is global...so what could they be trying to change globally? We know it's not climate now...so what is it?

Dawn

From your response Dawn it would seem that the type of data and the method of gathering data were skewed to obtain results that would favor the desired identification of a warming trend.

I have reviewed some of the statements of Al Gore and researched some of his background. I find some things concerning.

A global carbon tax allows the bureaucracy that controls it, a derivative based currency (in this case a carbon credit). I believe many think tanks and panels that develop the policy to drive the bureaucracy are financed (and defacto influenced) by international financial groups.

One has to investigate the global financial interests and compare them to sovereign interest (which appear to be diametrically opposed) to discern an answer.

For my opinion I think we are seeing a desperate act of the main financial players applying their influence to rescue an international monetary system from immoral and perhaps illegal derivative expansion.

Things may not look good for the States, if this game or any other rescue plan for the monetary system is applied by international financial interests that involved decreasing the sovereignty of the State and/or decreasing its productive capacity…

Mark

"A global carbon tax allows the bureaucracy that controls it, a derivative based currency (in this case a carbon credit). I believe many think tanks and panels that develop the policy to drive the bureaucracy are financed (and defacto influenced) by international financial groups."

Mark,

You're aiming at the correct nail.
Americans are currently fighting a desperate political battle against a bill(healthcare) proposed by our president that, if passed, will absolutely cripple our economy, perhaps ruin it. While our attentions is focused on this battle, he has been passing new legislation designed to strip us of our property rights, purchasing power, and promote socialism in our educational system.

Free America is at war with our own government. This is not being reported. The grassroot groups (teaparty, 9-12 org and others) currently doing battle are being marginalized by the media as kooks and zealots.

When I woke up and realized what was happening to my country, I broke down and cried. I trembled. I was almost incapacitated by fear. Then, I stood up, squared my shoulders, and jumped in to fight as best I can.

Its all about globalization. The people in power in Washington have a global agenda but they must break America first. They must destroy us because we are wealthy. They want control over our military might and economic wealth. If they succeed, they will come for the rest of the world. Carbon tax is just one tool. There are many more.
as an example, there is legislation being considered in the US right now that would make fishing on all waterways, lakes, stream, rivers and ponds subject to government control...even a father and son fishing in the local pond COULD be declared illegal, if this passes.If America falls, this kind of legislation will turn up in the UN...it is an 'environmentally based' law, a 'green' idea.

Got to http://teaparty.freedomworks.org/forum/topics/obama-seeks-control-of to learn more.
there are many excellent link on this site. Join us in the fight!

freedom is everything
Dawn

Dawn

I agree that the current globalised agenda is not a friend to humanity; only a friend to a limited few.

Clearly there is an agenda - whether that agenda is tropic (following its own natural tendencies) or a planned piece by piece process- which I do not known.

But I do understand the devolvement of our physical economies, our collective moral responsiveness and our creative capacity generally (with exceptions).

A dark time is about to overshadow us, I fear. I am used to fighting, but I don’t know to fight such a gross predicament of ignorance.

I guess times like this one needs courage and inspiration.

I can see in my country a lack of understanding of the complexities of the international situation and also the lack of perception to international pressure to deterioration on epic proportions.

What do you suggest? What is the focus of the fight?

Mark

Mark,

I too am overwhelmed by the gross apathy, lack of understanding, and sheer laziness of most of my fellow human beings but I am also overwhelmed by the amount of intelligence I find in the few individuals who UNDERSTAND, like yourself.

What do I suggest? What is the focus of the fight? hmmm, those are big questions.

At the current moment I choose to fight by engaging every idiot I come across in an intelligent argument for as long as they will hang around to argue. I always make sure I get the last word. I stand up for my morals and values and teach them to my children. I confront apathy and complacency where ever I see it and accept that this behavior marks me as different and dangerous to many. I have been called everything from heretic to fascist, from idiot follower to bitch on wheels. It's all good. :::shrugs:::
The focus on the fight directly in front of us is to wake the sleepers and get them to fight too as well as find the people who are placed highly enough to fight this on a national and global level and get them on our side.

In the long run I believe, as you said, a dark time is coming, a very dark time. Powerful forces are moving toward an ultimate solution that mankind will have no say in. I cannot tell you what to do on that level but I recommend keeping those you love as close as possible. Tell them how much you love them everyday. It's all about Love Mark. That's the whole thing...LOVE.
so, go love and enjoy the Gift with every second you have. If you do that, I guarantee you will win in the end, no matter what.

Dawn

I appreciate what you say - and there are some good people left, so there is always hope. I have tried to make a difference and I agree with you that getting people to think is difficult.

I have created a website www.amsd.com.au to try to educate others and at the same time it has been an immense education to me.

Sometimes it is a good strategy to understand them first then we can find the best way to communicate.

Fundamentally, I believe, it comes back to our family values. That of course comes back to our individual values. Those things that we hold sacrosanct; qualities such as compassion, understanding, charity, humility and faith … I guess we have heard it all before but it’s perennially essential.

Understanding is an interesting thing we usually understand what we think we see – education is to teach people to question what they see.

Mark

Mark

yes, there is always hope, another one of those gifts...

I have hope. I try hard and I won't quit until the Ref taps me for a rest on the bench. Education is a great tool but in my experience, despite the tiredness of the saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Thirst for knowledge usually comes when you are mature enough to look beyond the pettiness of your everyday life and wonder about the world, the past, the future. Many many people never get there. They spend their whole lives worrying about the crap on their neighbors' lawn or the size of their own butt or who won on Idol or who's a sinner and who's a saint. It's pathetic really, very sad.
That's why I love to meet people who think. You should check out some of the other threads under this topic. There are a couple of really interesting, worthwhile, intelligent people lurking in the longer threads. They let me hang around and ask alot of questions. :)

Dawn

PS: check this out. its over an hour long so bring popcorn and it's getting hard to find so if you really like it, download it

http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/great_global_warming_swindle.php

The Carboniferous period, roughly 350MYA had about the same temperature as present. Inbetween then and now there have been many real Ice ages. The last one ended ~12500 years ago, and man had nothing to do with it.
We should not grant anything in this argument about global warming due to man.
This viewpoint is in reality not a "scientific viewpoint" but a criminally concocted presentation based on false and altered temperature data for political reasons.
Another poin in closing that will demonstrate the absolute villanaeus nature of the proponents of a Carbon Vault in which to capture the Carbon in CO2. CO2 is the most important gas in our atmosphere.For every one Carbon atom you store in the vault, you will also remove two Oxygen Atoms. Does it make sense to remove the very building blocks of animal and plantlife on earth?

Search for Lord Monkton on youtube. He has a brilliant video presentation in which he addresses the criminal altering of data by scientist to promote global warming in order to allow polititians to lay the groundwork with binding treaties for a new world order and a new world government.

Global corporation and financial institutions have always needed "change" to be taking place, such is the dynamism of capitalism, without the need of vast sums of money being pumped from A to B there is only stagnation. The west propped up the east for many years in order to "MAINTAIN" the cold war, which allowed vast sums of money to be waisted on armaments without any complaint from the tax payer as it was for their "Security" There was never a mention of the millions of tons of food stuff being supplied to the USSR without which the whole regime would have collapsed, and which it finally did, so now we need a replacement "Security" ploy to insure the tax payer will be glad to be inslaved for the war on global warming.
I use the term inslave as the product of a persons labor, if confiscated, is a form of inslavement, just as the removal of a percentage from pay = work for no reward. =slavery.
The cap and trade carbon credit system is the invention of a new international currency which will be added to our cost of living, it will be tacked on to every item we require in order to stay alive.
There have been "pilot" schemes enacted over the recent past to gauge the public's reaction to these new impositions.
The savings and loan scandel of the last decade was a prelude to the recent plundering of tax payers money. the public was far more interested in monica's dress than the theft of a few billion tax dollars. The banning of our refrigerants as a ploy to re tool the entire refrigeration industry which is another bill we are going to face very soon.
All refrigeraton equipment ,commersial and domestic, in the U.S.A will have to be replaced, do you think this will bring the price of our food down.
Those who control the purse strings control the world.
every person has a price,there are few idealists among us.
Not with standing the CO2 researcher. or the ozone layer
expert who will convice you that the hole in the ozone over the south pole which has only been studied for a third of a century, is man made.
This very heavy and stable compound manufactured and used in the northern hemispher has some how develoveped a magnetic and lightweight quality and attacked the south poles ozone layer. and this southpole deficiency has absolutely nothing to do with the sun which creates the ozone layer and fortunately still seems to be doing a grand job up north but not for long.
How is this state of affairs acheived, Your government is being told what to do but not by the voters.

GF

There are hundreds of things that could be done other than Western bashing to solve the problem, Instead of dumping wast water into our rivers ,lakes our drinking water, every drop should be used to grow more trees Scientists have looked carefully at each of these factors. The only one where the data matches up is greenhouse gases -- levels of these gases have risen sharply as we burn more fossil fuels. If liberals were really interested in solving the problem, and not interested only in bashing industrialized nations, They would look for real solutions, The most logical solution is to increase oxygen in the atmosphere, rather than slow industrialization. One average size tree produces enough oxygen for breathing of 25 people. The average new home built would add 5 new trees to the world's best oxygen producers A simple solution in the US Is to force the US Government to release some of the millions an millions of acres, they are holding away from the people to control demographers for political reasons. GB advocates have already starved 100 millions Africans to death with their Western bashing agenda. Trees not only pump oxygen into the atmosphere they also pump moisture into the air. It doesn't rain much any more in Africa because most of the trees have been cut down in Africa and the Mid east.