I know the Bible says that Jesus existed (obviously) but the Bible can be trusted no more than a novel (or maybe i'm wrong-i would appreciate your input). I wonder if there is any other records of the Jesus that Christians believed existed, such as crucifixion records, Greek/ Roman writers, etc.
Thanks,
Shizzle-me-buff

There is real proof!!
there is a cave in motherwell where they have discoverd the remains of the almighty
they have also found evidence of the holy grail with real blood in it
it was found by a cupar man called james houston, he can be found 32 Sandylands Rd, Cupar, Scotland, United Kingdom

Remaints of the almighty? Remaints of the almighty?
A Cup with real blood in it?

How did they verify it was Jesus? Did they use DNA samples and carbon footprints?

Just Wondering,
Shizzle-me-buff

Nissar

I believe that I've heard something about scholars agreeing that Jesus the man probably existed around the time that the bible claims he did. If I remember correctly, they base this claim on circumstantial evidence like mentions of his teachings in peripheral writings, personal stories, things like that, sort of like proving Shakespeare existed because of the plays everyone copied down. I imagine it would be very difficult to prove the existence of any single, specific life from that period of time unless remains turn up or something like that. I don't know of any INCONTROVERTIBLE proof if that is what you're asking for (DNA or stuff like that) in fact, the one thing that Christians hold out as proof of Jesus and the biblical story is the shroud of turin and the validity of that has always been in question.

if you are looking for Jesus the man I don't think you'll have much luck without a time machine. Fortunately, the story of Jesus the man isn't the important thing to be looking for.

Dawn

PS: and, a carbon footprint is not what you are thinking of...it's carbon DATING, if that's of any help

Yeah they did all the possible scientific test to prove that he was jesus and the blood was still fresh as if god had been there visitng
they also found tags from the local young team which are based as the protectors
for more info please dont hesitate to call 07932949968
im from scotland so feel free to call with any questions
thank;)xx

Historians agree that the existing new testament manuscripts are in fact histrorical documents that have within them the testamony of those who claimed to witness the life of christ himself. Historians agree that as historical documents the attestations are to be taken as factual. So within these New Testament books we can read of firsthand accounts by real people who lived at that time verifying that they saw christ individually and corporately. Just read the gospels and you will see this. It is even recorded that over 500 witnesses saw christ rise from the earth and enter into heaven. In addition, there are extrabiblical records of those like Josephus a first century historian who wrote about christ and his followers thereby giving furter testamony to documents we call the New Testament. Don't forget the romans have records of his crucifixion and the gospels speak of real people like Herod governor of Judea and proconsuls like Felix who have themselves speaking about these christians and the phonomemon of christ. Still further extrabiblical evidence exists in other sources like the Jewish talmud which spoke of this christ figure. Later testamony from the early chruch fathers from 70ad down to Augustine confirm the historical significance of christ. One can also see the influence of the christ figure when testanmony from Mohomet leader of the muslim world calls for all muslims to believe in the christ figure of the new testament. When all the data is put together histrorians are in agreement that Christ was a real figure in history. In fact he is the foundational truth of all of what god intended for us to know. That he was a real historical person who claimed to be the son of god who died for our sins and who rose from the dead. All these things being testified by those living at the time and thereafter.
Mike

The creation idea is bassed on the fact that we all come from adam and eve but that claims we all come from incest please explaine this away . incest is a sin so the bible cant be correct its just a lot of stories in a book,would like your input.john

The Darwin idea of evolution is based on the fact that we all came from a single cosmic accident. To me, that's no easier to believe than Creation.

By the way: Incest wasn't a sin until the law was given in Leviticus, up until that point, several references are made to people marrying 1/2 sisters, brothers, etc.

I can understand this, as at this point, God creates a covenant with one people - one nation, the Israelites. He forbade incest then, but also forbade wearing anything but pure linen for priests, and other rules that people forget. Look at the following example:
One Sabbath, Jesus and his disciples were walking through some wheat fields. His disciples were hungry and began picking and eating grains of wheat.

Some Pharisees noticed this and said to Jesus, "Why are your disciples picking grain on the Sabbath? They are not supposed to do that!"

Jesus answered: You surely must have read what David did when he and his followers were hungry.

He went into the house of God, and then they ate the sacred loaves of bread that only priests are supposed to eat.

Haven't you read in the Law of Moses that the priests are allowed to work in the temple on the Sabbath? But no one says that they are guilty of breaking the law of the Sabbath.

I tell you that there is something here greater than the temple.

Don't you know what the Scriptures mean when they say, "Instead of offering sacrifices to me, I want you to be merciful to others?" If you knew what this means, you would not condemn these innocent disciples of mine.

So the Son of Man is Lord over the Sabbath.

From that example, you can see that Mercy for another human being takes precedence over a rule observed as tradition.

Reasoning out why and how about a religion is fairly useless. I suggest you read the bible - starting with Proverbs, then move through the New and Old Testaments. The Contemporary English Version is easy enough to understand, and you can form your own judgements about what's right and wrong about the book.

There is an entry in Roman chronicles of the times that a man named Jesus was executed. There is no further explanation given.

regards,

Jesus was a pretty popular name around then, come to think of it, it still is

I take it you're not offering the sought after proof...more likely you're saying (evidenced by other posts I've read from you and personal experience with your replies)

you idiot..he was a guy who got crucified for what ever reason and it doesn't matter

personally, and this is not intended as a judgment or insult to Christians posting here or anywhere else, I find the story of Jesus as Christ to be beautiful and worth knowing and referring to but I question the divinity involved.
While I will admit the Gospel is a fine way to find a path that LEADS to God and understanding, I do not think it is the ONLY way to do that.
As a former Catholic, I used to truly enjoy the fellowship of like believers. Being a strict deist (the Jeffersonian kind that believes in God and His Laws, not the modern kind that doesn't)I find faith far lonelier now. (lonely, not difficult)

Oddly enough, I am often told I MUST be a Christian or a Muslim because of how I talk about my understanding of God and His Laws as well as ethics versus morals and how both apply to the lives of mortal men.

I think you protest moral judgment as practiced by Christians and Muslims.
As I understand it, the practice of moral judgment is, in itself, immoral. the fact that religions do this (god hates gays, god hates muslims, god hates what ever, etc) is one of the reasons I eschew religion entirely.
God has told us it is for Him alone to judge sin. We, as mortal men and women, are only to practice the fine art of unconditional love. (love andrew, not sex, keep it clean)
::::grins:::::
Andrew, don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. It is entirely possible to have a deep faith and love for God and His Laws while remaining non judgmental and loving everyone. The hippies almost had it right, then they got too stoned and forgot what they were thinking.

LOL
Dawn

All I said was there was mention in the Roman chronicles of the times that a man named Jesus was executed.

And I got this big lecture. What would have happened if I said something provocative?

regards,

Come on...are you really so adverse to arguing? or is it that I leave little room for it? (I can be overwhelming, I'm aware of the fault)

should I ask you questions instead?

how about this;
what DO you believe?

Dawn

"You believe because you have seen, Blessed are those who
have not, and believe.

This is why I hate forums. I go to work and need to negotiate all day with clients, suppliers, co-workers, bosses, delivery people, and on and on. When you come to relax for a minute or two in a forum, everyone is arguing.

I thought the brilliance of a forum is people saying what they believe, think, know, feel, etc. without demanding others around them agree.

If you really want to "know" something you research, click into a search engine, go to the library, read a book, buy a magazine - etc. Oh well - c'est la vie.

Enjoy the verbal pong game - :)

The man's right Dawn, you keep flaming up for no reason. You probably don't remember the Bob Dylan days where we used to say "Make love not war".

regards,

I'm passionate. Maybe that's one of the things you would like to change. I would be so much nicer if I would just shut up.

don't hold your breath

Dawn

I respect your passion about getting along and being repectful to one another. But that kind of a world just does not exist especially in this kind of forum. I think you could find more of that kind of respect at a christian forum. However, you probably understand that you can sharpen your own ideas against the tide of unbelief as you patiently bring to light his word. We are after all the light of the world and the salt of the earth. Remember St. Paul and his continual struggle trying to convince the judizers of his own day not to mention the greek audience on Mars hill who scoffed. Some however, attached themselves to Paul after that initial speech! Anyway for what its worth it is a struggle that we wage and as Paul said it is not against flesh and blood only but against Principalities and Powers in High Places.
Mike

I appreciate the recognition. I cannot give up. It makes me ill to consider the idea. The fact of my... passion, shall we call it, bothers people and, in that disturbance, lies the avenue to the soul.

I speak not to their minds but it is only with their minds they can hear my words. The key to my strength lies in my ability to rattle them. The minds of men have become too static, too arrogant, too committed.

Insanity has become the norm and sanity is called insane.

I don't know if I can reach anyone but I cannot stop trying.

to this I say;
it would be nice if we could free the world from the oppressive slavery of religion
from the rulership of small minded men who cling to outdated religious, racist, hateful, non diverse, beliefs
the world needs a change from the oppression of those who don't really think
it needs to be saved from
old thoughts
traditions
culture

the people need to be re-educated and taught to think correctly
without the repression of religion and God
a new paradigm is required
the truth of reform shall set them free...

I got all this from the doctrine of the Cultural Revolution
in China.

If you have read this and agreed, perhaps it is time to think again

Dawn

If you read the writings of Josephus-the historian during the Roman times then that is the proof Jesus was existed.

Oh for Christ sake stop rambling already. Pick up a book once in a while. Start with ones on the history of Christianity.