Mike, when you quote John 18:37, let's keep in mind what it actually reads.

Question asked: Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then?

Response that evades the answer sought for by Pilate: Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king.

Clarification: To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

In other words, Jesus does not admit to being a king. He just iterates what Pilate has claimed in the recent past, but Jesus puts things into perspective according to the author of John. He says why he was born and why he came to the world: to "bear witness unto the truth." All Messengers of Allah are born into the world for the same reason: namely, to "bear witness unto the truth."

Jesus puts a further spin on this scenario! He tells us that truthful people hear "his" voice! As a Muslim, one would not have a problem with this because when Muḥammad is heard, so also is Jesus and all the other Messengers of Allah heard. Jesus prophesied of Muḥammad's coming, so "Every one that is of the truth" will not only hear the voice of Jesus, but they will hunger after the Message of Muḥammad, he whom the Jewish Scriptures boldly and blatently prophesy about!

My question to you, Mike, is "Why are you rebelling against the laws of nature?" Is that rebellion against the command to obey God your religion? If not, embrace what you know instinctively to be true. Be like the satellites of the Universe that follow their orbits as God intended them to do. Be like the atoms of every creature that seek to follow their missions as God intended them to do. Be like the birds and the bee, the flowers and the trees, that all exist in accordance to God's commands. Anything outside of Islam, by definition, is tyranny, transgression against the laws of God, and rebellion against the very laws set in place by the Almighty Magesty. By definition of the word "Muslim," Mu-Mike, I know you truly seek to be one who obeys the command to submit completely to Allah, a command that we call Islam in Arabic but has so many relative meanings.

We invite you, Mu-Mike, to embrace Allah's command Islam, but that invitation is Allah summoning you back to him as when and after you were just born. Do what you know Jesus said, and then you will know of the doctrine...

Nono

Hi Mike:

You said, "THERE WILL BE NO REPORTS ON CNN AS YOU THINK BUT RATHER WRATH WILL BE REVEALED AGAINST ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNES OF THOSE WHO HOLD THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS..." and then you quoted the following passages that I will for context's sake re-quote, but, before we advance in your usage of these Christian passages, please understand that I believe that Saint Paul was a fraud and that 2 Peter and 2 John were forgeries due to the overwhelming and very recent scholarly findings of the New Testament. Nevertheless, for the sake of your point, I am going to use them as if they are indeed passages worthy to be called Scripture.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Romans 1:18 (KJV)

In Islam, by definition of what this command means, "the wrath of God" as represented in this text is like an adult touching a hot grill, burning his hand, and not learning the lesson. By the laws of nature that God put into place, it would only be insane to touch the hot grill again, and by virtue of the laws of nature, to defy anything revealed from heaven like the Qur'an IS "ungodliness and unrighteousness of men." You know right from wrong. I really believe you know the truth. I honestly believe that. Because of that core belief I have in you, in spite of how frustrated I get at times over what seems to be blatant ignorance, I see you as a brother. I really do. I know I can get a hair up my rectum once in a while, and I apologize for that. It's one of my shortcomings, but in light of all my apologetics, I also sincerely believe that you know AND "hold the truth in unrighteousness." The reason I believe this is because in spite of what you know you still seek to convince yourself that something that is against the laws of nature, such as rebelling against the command of Allah to submit to the laws He has placed in nature for all mankind, every creature in the universe, and all things in the universe, is true. That is holding what you know to be true in unrighteousness. At this point, I believe you understand the true and beautiful essence of Islam and what it is to be a Muslim, but you cause yourself unnecessary jihad (strife), tyranny, and injustice when all you have to do is repent and embrace Islam.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10 (KJV)

I recommend you get a copy of "Thief In The Night" by William Sears. He is a Baha'i author of one of the greatest books I have ever read on this subject. Although I personally and through personal experience accept the Baha'i Faith as a dangerous cult with beautiful doctrines, teachings, practices, and writing, this work convinces me that if Jesus were indeed to return again as the Christians for 2000 years have awaited, then he would have come around the 1840s. If this is so, then the remnants of those who remain from that time forward are left behind as if a thief in the night came already. My point is that the laws that are in place by the Almighty Magesty, the Infinite Mercy, require that there be a day of resurrection, the earth vomitting the corpses of the earth, and a day of judgment by the Infinite Designer of all things in the Universe, Our Creator. I don't think it will be something that transpires supernaturally except in the sense that ALL the laws of Allah are supernatural from the very start. The Qur'an promises those who submit to the true God, Allah, Developer (Lord) of all things, that in that day this passage speaks of there will be no fear upon them. Isn't that what you want? Isn't that sense of salaam (peace) the result of Islam (the command to be saved) the hope of a Muslim (one who is saved)? I believe that salvation is very important to you, and I believe that in your heart this is what you want, so why rebel against the laws of Your Developer (Lord)? The satellites in their orbits do not see a need to; the birds and the bees, the flowers and the trees, and all other creatures and objects of the universe don't see a reason to disobey, so why would you who has this agency to choose want to rebel against that law, that force, that brings you salvation? So it really does not matter whether Jesus comes as a thief in the night or not. What matters is whether you are ready to meet your Lord on Judgment Day, right?

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2 John 1:10 (KJV)

You missed the context of the verse above. It comes in the verses before them which I quote below.
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5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:5-9 (KJV)
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Perspective in Islam agrees that the commandments are the same as they were in the very beginning. All things are called into subjection to Allah. If you understand that, then you understand Islam. As human beings, it is natural for mankind to love one another. In fact, this natural law is a command of Allah. If you ever learn of a terrorist representing Jesus, Islam, or any other Messenger of Allah, then you know that that person is a liar, a bold face liar, because all Messengers of Allah come into the world as a mercy from the Infinite Mercy, Allah, to remind us to submit our lives completely to Allah. Just as the passage above that I quoted above says, Whoever transgresses the laws of Allah and goes contrary to what Jesus, the Messenger of Allah, taught does not have God. Whoever DOES abide in the doctrines of Jesus has both Allah and His descended Messengers.

One more thing as regards putting things into perspective, the word "son" is used a lot to refer to Jesus. The Greek Word υἱός huios does not really mean "son." It is the male version of the word and means something or someone who descended from something or someone else. It does not refer to biology at all, but it can have a biological context if presented in that proper context. The opposite of υἱός huios is πατήρ patēr. In English, we often use the word "parent" to describe whence something came. For example, the parent company of ABC1.1 Company is ABC1. It is the male version of the word also, and it can mean father, forefather, parent, etc., but unless put into such context does not necessarily refer to biological father.

All Messengers are υἱός huios of their πατήρ patēr. In the context provided throughout the New Testament as we have from the Greek, this is what is meant when we refer to Jesus as the υἱός huios of God. God therefore is the πατήρ patēr of the υἱός huios, Messenger He has sent. If you keep this perspective in mind, then it all makes sense in the Islamic perspective the Jesus is the Son of God. Outside of the perspective I have presented as regards this and 2 John 1:10, "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed." To do otherwise would indeed not be Islam.

Nono

Surah Al-Aa'raf

7:75 The arrogant leaders among his people said to the common people who believed, "How do you know that Saaleh is sent by his Lord?"

They said, "The message he brought has made us believers."

Surah Al-Zakharuf

43:26 Abraham said to his father and his people, "I disown what you worship.

43:27 "Only the One who initiated me can guide me."

43:28 This example (of Abraham) was rendered an everlasting lesson for subsequent generations; perhaps they redeem their souls.

43:29 Indeed, I have given these people and their ancestors sufficient chances, then the truth came to them, and a clarifying messenger.

43:30 When the truth came to them, they said, "This is magic, and we are disbelievers therein."

43:31 They said, "If only this Quran was sent down through another man from the two communities (Mecca or Yathrib) who is prominent!"

43:32 Are they the ones who assign your Lord's mercy? We have assigned their shares in this life, raising some of them above others in ranks, in order to let them serve one another. The mercy from your Lord is far better than any material they may hoard.

43:33 If it were not that all the people might become one (disbelieving) congregation, we would have granted everyone who disbelieves in the Most Gracious mansions with silver roofs, and stairs upon which they could climb.

43:34 Their mansions would have impressive gates, and luxurious furnishings.

43:35 Also many ornaments. All these are the temporary materials of this lowly life. The Hereafter - at your Lord - is far better for the righteous.

43:36 Anyone who disregards the message of the Most Gracious, we appoint a devil to be his constant companion.*

43:37 Such companions will divert them from the path, yet make them believe that they are guided.

I'm not sure where you get your translation from, but it seems to be saying something contextually different than what the Arabic transfers over. I don't mean to be so technical or politically correct, but the translation you give and the Arabic do not match. The roots of words are used incorrectly to make the two translations mean something different from each other. Why?

"...common people..." versus "...oppressed..."?
"How do you know that..." versus "Do you know that..."?"They said, 'The message he brought has made us believers.'" versus "(2) They said, (2a) “Indeed, we do (2b) because (2d) believers (2c) were sent with him.”
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7:75 (1b) The satifiers (fulfillers like chiefs or leaders) (1c) who thought they were great (who were arrogant) (1d) among his people (1a) said (1e) to those who have been oppressed (1f) to whoever believed among them, (1g) “Do you know that Ṣāliḥ is a Messenger from His Developer (Lord)?” (2) They said, (2a) “Indeed, we do (2b) because (2d) believers (2c) were sent with him.” (*)

قَالَ ٱلۡمَلَأُ ٱلَّذِينَ ٱسۡتَڪۡبَرُواْ مِن قَوۡمِهِۦ لِلَّذِينَ ٱسۡتُضۡعِفُواْ لِمَنۡ ءَامَنَ مِنۡہُمۡ أَتَعۡلَمُونَ أَنَّ صَـٰلِحً۬ا مُّرۡسَلٌ۬ مِّن رَّبِّهِۦ‌ۚ قَالُوٓاْ إِنَّا بِمَآ أُرۡسِلَ بِهِۦ مُؤۡمِنُونَ (٧٥)

75. (1a) Qāla (1b) l-malau [√mla] (1c) llaṭīna istakbarū (1d) min qawmi-hi (1e) lillaṭīna istuđ’ifū [√đ’ istuf'ilū, ] (1f) li-man āmana min-hum (1g) a-ta’lamūna anna ṣāliḥan mursalun min rabbi-hi (2) qālū (2a) innā (2b) bi-mā (2c) ursila [uf’ila, 3rd, m., sing., perf. pass., Stem IV] bi-hi (2d) mu’minūna
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Anyway, what is the point?

Nono

Once again, I am reading from the Arabic, and what your translation represents does not really compare well. Your interpretations provided send different messages than what is necessarily provided for in the grammatics of the Arabic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your translations is sending out a different message than the actual Qur'an. Once again, please advise us regarding the point you are trying to make. Thanks.

Nono

P.S.:
Here's my translation from what I gather from the Arabic.
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Az-Zukhruf سُوۡرَةُ الزّخرُف

43:26 When Abraham said to his father and his people, “Indeed, I am innocent of what you worship… 43:27 except for He who created me ex nilo. Therefore, indeed, He will guide me.” 43:28 He produced it with lasting words in his posterity that perhaps they might answer (return). 43:29 (1) Nevertheless, I made these and their forefathers enjoy (2) until the truth and Obvious Messengers came to them. 43:30 When the truth came to them, they said, “This is magic. Indeed, we are rejecters of it!” 43:31 They said, “If this, the recitations, were not sent down to men of the two villages (towns, hamlets, cities) – it is important – 43:32 …are they distributing mercy of Your Developer (Lord)? (2) We distribute among them their livelihood in the life of the world. (3) We gradually elevate some of them above others (3a) in order to mock part of them. [Lit.: …(3a) in order to take part of them to mocking.] (4) Mercy of Your Developer (Lord) is better than what they gather. 43:33 (1a) If the people were not single neutral communities/nations, (1b) We would not produce (1e) roofs of silver (1f) and stairways upon which they ascend (1d) for their houses (1c) for whoever rejects the Infinite Mercy… 43:34 … and (1b) gates (1c) and couches (thrones, furnishings) [Lit.: happiness] upon which they recline (1a) for their homes… 43:35 …and gold decorations. Indeed, all that, but an enjoyment (a benefit, an advantage) of this worldly life and the Hereafter before Your Developer (Lord) for the righteous ones. 43:36 Whoever is unable to remember the mercy at night, we prepare for them adversaries. Then he will have peers. 43:37 Indeed, they do not hinder them from the way, and they think that they are guided ones.

وَإِذۡ قَالَ إِبۡرَٲهِيمُ لِأَبِيهِ وَقَوۡمِهِۦۤ إِنَّنِى بَرَآءٌ۬ مِّمَّا تَعۡبُدُونَ (٢٦) إِلَّا ٱلَّذِى فَطَرَنِى فَإِنَّهُ ۥ سَيَہۡدِينِ (٢٧) وَجَعَلَهَا كَلِمَةَۢ بَاقِيَةً۬ فِى عَقِبِهِۦ لَعَلَّهُمۡ يَرۡجِعُونَ (٢٨) بَلۡ مَتَّعۡتُ هَـٰٓؤُلَآءِ وَءَابَآءَهُمۡ حَتَّىٰ جَآءَهُمُ ٱلۡحَقُّ وَرَسُولٌ۬ مُّبِينٌ۬ (٢٩) وَلَمَّا جَآءَهُمُ ٱلۡحَقُّ قَالُواْ هَـٰذَا سِحۡرٌ۬ وَإِنَّا بِهِۦ كَـٰفِرُونَ (٣٠) وَقَالُواْ لَوۡلَا نُزِّلَ هَـٰذَا ٱلۡقُرۡءَانُ عَلَىٰ رَجُلٍ۬ مِّنَ ٱلۡقَرۡيَتَيۡنِ عَظِيمٍ (٣١) أَهُمۡ يَقۡسِمُونَ رَحۡمَتَ رَبِّكَ‌ۚ نَحۡنُ قَسَمۡنَا بَيۡنَہُم مَّعِيشَتَہُمۡ فِى ٱلۡحَيَوٰةِ ٱلدُّنۡيَا‌ۚ وَرَفَعۡنَا بَعۡضَہُمۡ فَوۡقَ بَعۡضٍ۬ دَرَجَـٰتٍ۬ لِّيَتَّخِذَ بَعۡضُہُم بَعۡضً۬ا سُخۡرِيًّ۬ا‌ۗ وَرَحۡمَتُ رَبِّكَ خَيۡرٌ۬ مِّمَّا يَجۡمَعُونَ (٣٢) وَلَوۡلَآ أَن يَكُونَ ٱلنَّاسُ أُمَّةً۬ وَٲحِدَةً۬ لَّجَعَلۡنَا لِمَن يَكۡفُرُ بِٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ لِبُيُوتِہِمۡ سُقُفً۬ا مِّن فِضَّةٍ۬ وَمَعَارِجَ عَلَيۡہَا يَظۡهَرُونَ (٣٣) وَلِبُيُوتِہِمۡ أَبۡوَٲبً۬ا وَسُرُرًا عَلَيۡہَا يَتَّكِـُٔونَ (٣٤) وَزُخۡرُفً۬ا‌ۚ وَإِن ڪُلُّ ذَٲلِكَ لَمَّا مَتَـٰعُ ٱلۡحَيَوٰةِ ٱلدُّنۡيَا‌ۚ وَٱلۡأَخِرَةُ عِندَ رَبِّكَ لِلۡمُتَّقِينَ (٣٥) وَمَن يَعۡشُ عَن ذِكۡرِ ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ نُقَيِّضۡ لَهُ ۥ شَيۡطَـٰنً۬ا فَهُوَ لَهُ ۥ قَرِينٌ۬ (٣٦) وَإِنَّہُمۡ لَيَصُدُّونَہُمۡ عَنِ ٱلسَّبِيلِ وَيَحۡسَبُونَ أَنَّہُم مُّهۡتَدُونَ (٣٧)

26. Wa ‘iṭ qāla ibrāhīmu li-‘abī-hi wa qawmi-hi inna-nī barāun [√bra fa’alun, nom., m., indef. n.] mim-mā ta’budūna 27. Illā llaṭī faţara-nī [√fţr] fa ‘inna-hu sayahdīni 28. Wa ja’ala-hā kalimatan bāqiyatan [√bqy fā’ilatan, ] fī ‘aqibi-hi [√’qb fa’ili] la’alla-hum yarji’ūna 29. (1) Bal matta’-tu [√mt’ fa’’al, 1st, m., sing. , perf. act., Stem II] hāulā’i wa ābāa-hum ḥattā jāa-humu l-ḥaqqu wa rasūlun mubīnun 30. Wa lammā jāa-humu l-ḥaqqu qālū hāṭā siḥrun wa ‘in-nā bi-hi kāfirūna [fā’ilūna, nom., m., pl., act. pcple.] 31. Wa qālū law lā nuzzila hāṭā l-qur’ānu ‘alā rajulin mina l-qaryat-ayni ‘ažīmun 32. (1) A-hum yaqsimūna raḥmata rabbi-ka (2) naḥnu qasam-nā bayna-hum ma’īşata-hum [‘yş] fīl-ḥayāti d-dunyā (3) wa rafa’-nā ba’đa-hum fawqa ba’đin darajātin (3a) li-yattaxiṭa ba’đu-hum ba’đan suxriyyan [√xry] (4) wa raḥmatu rabbi-ka xayrun mim-mā yajma’ūna 33. (1a) Wa law lā an yakūna n-nāsu ummatan wāḥidatan (1b) la ja’al-nā (1c) li-man yakfuru bir-raḥmāni (1d) li-buyūti-him 1e) suqufan min fiđđatin (wa ma’ārija ‘alay-hā yažharūna [√žhr] 34. Wa (1a) li-buyūti-him (1b) abwāban (1c) wa sururan ‘alay-hā yattaki’ūna 35. Wa zuxrufan wa ‘in kullu ṭālika lammā matā’u l-ḥayāti d-dunyā wa l-āxiratu ‘inda rabbi-ka lil-muttaqīna 36. Wa man ya’şu ‘an ṭikri r-raḥmāni nuqayyiđ la-hu şayţānan fa huwa la-hu qarīnun 37. Wa ‘inna-hum la yaṣuddūna-hum ‘ani s-sabīli wa yaḥsabūna anna-hum muhtadūna

AOA NK..The translations are of Khalifa...from quranbrowser.com

I posted these Ayaat in support to what you have recently posted in reponse to MV.

POINTS:

1-How people come to know that someone is really appointed from God, like 'Saaleh' a prophet of Allah....!
...Because of 'the Message' given to him.

So the people of past and people of today can JUDGE..QURAN by reading and understanding it that it must be a MESSAGE OF ALLAH..and PROPHET MUHAMMAD WAS A TRUE MESSENGER.

I posted it because MV is not in MOOD to 'accept' any REVELATION after his New Testament...and had suggested GOD ..that it was NOT NECASSARY.

2- The other point is that 'BASIC' TRUE RELIGION ...is/was/has to be...the Religion given to ABRAHAM..nothing more nothing less.

People have two general reasons to accept/not to accept it.

a-They don't want to lose their 'world'...e.g. a famous film star wouldn't do it...at least 'openly' because he would never want to be a 'loser'..in this world..

b- They might expect they would become 'more blessed' in this world 'perheps' if they become believers.

Allah message, overall,is that NOTHING MATTERS AT ALL...
THIS WORLD/WORDLY IS NOTHING..WHETHER YOU HAVE SOMTHING OR YOU DON'T HAVE IT....ALL THAT MATTERS IS THE WORLD HERE AFTER IF SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS!

Thx.

Got it! Thanks. Your last post puts the previous post into perspective for me. Now I understand the context of your quoting. Sorry for my being so dumb sometimes.

Xalifa!! No wonder I was having so many problems. Xalifa's translation is not only bias, but it's too loosely "interpreted" and not even comparative to any remotely reliable translation. Meanwhile, Pickthall, Shakir, and Yusuf Ali translations are far more in my league and far more reliable than most. Nevertheless, they still are interpretations of translations of the Qur'an and are all loaded with errors which require that readers of the Qur'an to turn to the Arabic. Xalifa is not in league with any remotely reliable translation because his interpretation is meant to prove that he is a Messenger of Allah equal to Muhammad. His followers are forbidden to read or compare other translations. Anything Xalifa... stay away. His cult is trying to makes its way here in Lancaster, CA, and they are not a safe group to be intellectually associated with.

Nono

Heyyy..

I stole this from my friend's site (WN):

I am so clever,that sometimes I do not understand a single word of what I am saying. Oscar Wilde.

.............................

Some of us are like ink and some like paper.
And if it were not for the blackness of some of us, some of us would be dumb;
And if it were not for the whiteness of some of us, some of us would be blind. Khalil Gibran

:)

we all are clever, we all are dumb, we all are white and we all are black...........

Thanks for the info..what I do generally is..I compare different translations available in Urdu at different websites..I also make use of my understandings of the Arabic phrases helped by Urdu and the experience with them since my childhood. I prefer the suitability of the situation and try to make my point clear.

Since most of these disputable matters are not too senstive, compared to the issue of the belief of second-coming of Jesus a.s a contemporary problem obviously,for which I wanted you to help me earlier..:)..otherwise I focus on the gross impression of the Ayat...under-consideration..but I know I'm just imperfect and a humanbeing...

I have no personal affiliations with any of the translator, at all..obviously they all have their own approaches or some private intentions to put into words..of which my mind is not aware, obviously...

Anyways my interest is to project a better and true aspect of word 'Islam' and 'Muslim' for all...and fight back secterian approaches.

I apologize if I become firm too, but that's for the sake of the religion, only..because if we will try to become too tolerable for afflictions of the modern world we'll never be able to treat them,justfully.

Plus..I feel that this 'very topic' is leading nowhere now...

We all are trying to make a difference by trying to become a better Muslim...no one is claiming to be righteous...love begets love...and disrespect..provokes disrespect...but ,,there should be an end...somewhere...

I have a few more things in focus to deal with,after which I'll become SILENT , again..Inshallah..that's how I'm used to be...:)

The reason is that I couldn't express myself before at WN..directly because of the general controversy regarding Muslims and Islam..you can see I don't favour Muslims if they are doing wrong...still...and at the secterian/non sectarian sites...it's not possible either because of their 'set agendas'...so this site made me a bit bold in my opinion.

I 've no intentions to make fans, Nono,all I need is a few understanding friends..

Thanks.

May Allah guide us all and protect us..Ameen

No need to sweat it, my friend. We're on the same page, and as far as being an understanding friend, I seek to be the best friend that Allah will permit me to be to everyone. I don't expect anything in return, except common courtesy such as the Golden Rule. I'm very open minded, but I don't like to be intentionally lied to.

I think if I didn't suspect Mike of intentionally lying, I would not be such a hard-rump with him, but, as he begins to make some intelligent perspective and as he begins to prove that he genuinely understands Islam and demonstrates that he really wants to contribute to the discussion(s), I begin to see him as the person I initially believed about him - intelligent, respectable, eager to learn the truth, eager to teach the truth, eager to be One with God, and a Muslim by definition of what the word actually means. Since my operation, I seem to be liking him a lot more.

The same is true with anyone else, Muslim or not. I realize a lot of "secular" Mulsims enter conversations, and I try not to be such a jerk (that's being polite), but one of my shortcomings is impatience with intentional ignorance. Sometimes, I'm the ignorant one, but I always step back long enough to do my research to see if I am indeed being ignorant, and sometimes I find myself apologizing where an apology is due, but when the evidence prove that someone is intentionally trying to mislead people, my shortcoming comes into play, and I become a total idiot as some of you have seen me become at time, and I apologize to everyone for that.

Anyway, you and I are on the same page, Silent. I appreciate your contributions. Because English is my primary language, I can understand how difficult it would be for you to go from Arabic to English versus Arabic to Urdu. It's tough. I only go from Arabic to English. That's why I was able to catch something very familiar with the translations you were providing. When you mentioned Dr. Khalifa's name, I realized what the problem was, and I didn't mean to come down hard on anyone, but it was a warning, a very important warning to anyone not familiar with his translation.

Nono

Thanks..I feel the same way ..who's perfect..no one..

Our individuality and the the way we are brought up or see things ...is the main aspect of how and where any given discussion would lead....

Again ..a majority in the world doesn't know Arabic and English...yet they UNDERSTAND what is the message of the Ayat/verse of the Quran..

Thousands of the people have translated Bible and Quran..but when it comes to any controvesial situation..they are still NOT SURE...haha..

A simple example is the issue of multiple marraiges, Jihad, Hijab, Homosexuality, and Dajjal..( intentionally being mixed up with Gog and Magog)

We are brought up while seeing our leaders and Scholars fighting over it....how would one think one will be able to SOLVE the issue instantaneously because of Arabic or..English...without a proper insight and right approach...(don't get mad at me again...:))

Remember how highly-literated were all Arabs...well they still are...yet..everyone knows what they are 'doing'..No one can POSSESS Allah's message, brother..!

In our schools in East, 'Islamiyat' is a compulsory subject ..kids learn and memorize Ayaat and Hadiths (usually Moral only)..
They learn some of the Arabic too...but the problem is...kids are always spoon-fed' by their parents, teachers and relatives...and by the 'Mad Crowd'....they never TRY to have a 'second opinion' because of the FEAR OF PEOPLE ...not Allah....

The true spirit of a Muslim is that he/she should INVESTIGATE/EXPLORE..as Allah commanded...but they are very much discouraged in EAST...

Thankfully my parents have been very open-minded..(but not for immoral issues)...

I'm so glad to know that people in West , when embrace Islam..they see the TRUE picture of Islam..as its meant to be...and they do it by free-choice..at an understanding age...They accept Quran as the primary source of guidance and do not prefer Hadith over Quran. The case is quite opposite in East, sadly...

Well this is Allah's PLAN and HE himself will take care of it despite of all the short-comings ..the HUMANS have...

We are supposed to CONVEY.only...

I've been tolerating the non-sense also..but should we show 'humility' to the offenders of Allah, Quran and Muhammad????????????

S.

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If you like kindly join me in, under 'Message in an Ark'..topic..

What is your point? If you are asking if the Muslim faith is the only real religion, then of course not. I don't care how many rambling quotes you post. A trained parrot can quote the Koran. Doesn't make him intelligent or knowledgeable about anything. Just shows that he wants attention and can be controlled by something drilled endlessly into his ears.

Actually a very apt metaphor for religion in general.