Christianity
The Tree Of Life
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newnature
Hi everyone, just reasoning out that life Yahweh has within himself, which is the same life the tree of life produces, that life is cool stuff. Thanks for any reasoning insights one has on this tree of life series.

Post 1
If one really thinks about it, having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. After all, that’s what the serpent omitted in his speech, before Eve ate off the tree of knowledge of good and bad. The serpent said, “You are not going to die, but Yahweh knows that as soon as you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like divine beings, who know good and bad.” It’s true in one sense, but false in another; the serpent sort of omitted to point out, that its the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh like. The very action that brought Adam and Eve a Yahweh like awareness of their mortal autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh. Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad; it’s one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good. For Adam and Eve to have true freedom of will, Adam and Eve have to have the freedom to rebel. This is why this tree is in the garden, next to the tree of life; instead, evil will come about as a result of the clash of the will of Yahweh, and the will of humans, who happen to have the freedom to rebel. Human beings, and only human beings are the potential source of evil, responsibility for evil will lie in the hands of human beings. Yet, evil is represented not as a physical reality, it’s not built into the structure of Eden, evil is a condition of human existence, and to assert that evil stems from human behavior. The drama of Adam and Eve’s life should revolve not around the search for eternal life, nor preoccupation with immortality; it was not in Yahweh’s design for this kind of drama. It was Yahweh’s design for the tree of life to have been eaten of, there was no danger to Adam and Eve going on eternally, being immortal. The eating off the tree of knowledge of good and bad, has caused a moral conflict and tension between Yahweh’s good design for creation, and the free will of human beings that can corrupt that good design. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos. Man’s disobedience is the cause of the human predicament. Human freedom can be at one and the same time an omen of disaster, and a challenge, and opportunity.

So despite Adam and Eve’s newfound mortality, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with. They’re unpredictable to the very Yahweh who created them. Yahweh has to modify his plan, by barring access to the tree of life; that was not something presumably Yahweh planned to do. Adam and Eve had access to this tree up to that point, as long as their will conformed to the will of Yahweh, there was no danger to their going on eternally, being immortal. Once they discovered their moral freedom, once they discovered that they could thwart Yahweh and work evil in the world, and abuse and corrupt all that Yahweh had created, then Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life. That would be tantamount to creating divine enemies, immortal enemies. So Yahweh must maintain the upper hand in his struggle with these humans who have learned to defy him. And Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that humans eventually must die. Yahweh stations the cherubim and the fiery ever-turning sword to guard the way back to the tree of life, once Adam and Eve were banished from the garden. The tree of life is now inaccessible; no humans have access to immortality, and the pursuit of immortality is futile. So it might be then that Yahweh really spoke the truth after all, the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad did bring death to humankind.
http://thatlifeyahwehhas.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2012-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=12

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replied to:  newnature
Yoda55
Replied to:  Hi everyone, just reasoning out that life Yahweh has within himself,...
Newnature,
Regarding paragraph 2:

The creation of man and woman in the "image of God", is often debated in Christian circles. My preference is to believe it referred to ability of man to reason (not just simple problem solving, but deeper ethical thinking about "right" and "wrong") coupled with the capacity to return God's affection. The "choice" is actually to either recognize the Truth (understand and be in concert with the flow with which God initiated the universe we inhabit), or to reject it (in favor of self-centered/-serving morality).

One makes a selection, and either accepts the reality or tries to deny it. Humans are endowed with other emotions, and feelings rooted in hormonal balances (much like other creatures on earth). The tendecy to prefer those choices which self-gratify (and play to hormonal baseness) will attract man and draw him away from God. The needs man has were satisfied by the basics God provided.

Other created entities (angels) perform other functions, and were endowed with ability to reason and to return affection to God - and they predated man. Seeking greater status and adulation was Lucifer's downfall. He convinced Eve (and through her Adam) that disobedience would not result in consequences for actions. He lied, because his own status proved otherwise - having been expelled from God's presence. And, he seeks to revenge his condition on God, deluding himself that he can win out over God. Man was NOT the only creature to disobey, nor the first.

Paragraph 3:

I think you attribute too little ability to God. The tendency for people to think of God as just another man, leads them down a path which is faulty. Although He may not "predestine" each move you make (allowing choice) He is able to map out the possible consequences of your actions - in their entirety! He knows where you're headed before you do. And, He took the risk of permitting "choice", and provided resolution to the stumbling block it presents.

The problem presented to man (for having defied God) is different from that which Satan and his fallen angel companions (demons) face. Satan and his demons are immortal and exist in a state not unlike God. God gave man a method of resolving his state of opposition - dying physically, but living immortally (the soul) with God if and only if man accepted his status in creation (through Christ). Satan and his demons do not have the same option. They cannot die and change state to allow them redemption, without mercy on God's part. Satan and the demons will (in my opinion) either cease to exist or be forever caught in a state of separation from God's presence (come the final judgment).

God is not challenged in containing the condition of sin. His abilities far exceed anything within the creation.
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replied to:  newnature
lucaspa
Replied to:  Hi everyone, just reasoning out that life Yahweh has within himself,...
Yahweh is spirit, not physical. So it is unclear whether the Tree of Life would produce that type of life.

When trying to interpret the Bible and make theories from scripture, it is absolutely necessary to first read the story as the people of the time would have understood it. You are making a theory that doesn't take account of that.

The competing religion in Egypt held that humans could become gods if they gained enough knowledge. This story 1) refutes that and thus denies that the Egyptian religion is true and 2) explains why humans are cut off from God.

The story is an allegory. We think of "Adam" and "Eve" as words used only for names of people. But in Hebrew "Adam" means "dirt" and "Eve" means "hearth". So we have a story of Dirt and Hearth. The allegory is now clear to see.

This isn't a story about what happened to Adam and Eve, but rather an allegory to explain why we each of us are cut off from God. Basically, all of us at some time or other are going to give in to temptation (the servant) and disobey God. When we do we are going to become spiritually dead. The death spoken of by God in Genesis 2:17 -- "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." -- is spiritual death, not physical death.

When Adam disobeys God by eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, Adam spiritually dies because he is cut off from Yahweh. It's the disobedience, not the knowledge of good and evil that is the problem. Having disobeyed once, it is probable that they will disobey again, so Yahweh has to ensure they don't eat of the Tree of Life.

Now, the idea that evil is solely a product of human behavior creates some problems. For one, it denies Satan and his role in evil. Second, surely the serpent who tempted Eve was also committing evil. Third, it makes Yahweh either incredibly naive or incredibly stupid. Any human parent knows that as soon as you tell kids not to get into the cookie jar, they will try to get into the cookie jar. Yahweh isn't at least that smart?

The pursuit of absolute immortality is probably impossible. Yes, we can greatly extend our lifespan, but eventually some combination of circumstances is going to result in the destruction of our physical bodies. "Final Destination" if you prefer. It may take millions of years, but eventually it will happen. If it doesn't the heat death of the universe ensures that all living things will die.

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replied to:  lucaspa
RandMSutor
Replied to:  Yahweh is spirit, not physical. So it is unclear whether...
To lucaspa:

It wasn't Adam & Eve's eating the forbidden fruit that was the problem. It was their disobedience in doing so! They were tempted by Satan, a fallen angel (read Isaiah 14 & Ezekiel 28) and followed thru with that temptation by doing what God told them not to.

Prior to that, they were perfect, but also created with a will, meaning they had the power of decision and the power-of-reason. When they were deceived & tempted to do evil, they had no idea of the misery it would bring if they disobeyed God's will.

And isn't that the hook that is linked with all temptation? Gen. 3: 1-7 "And when the woman saw (v. 6) that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; . . ."

All sin can be listed under these catagories: lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and the pride of life.

Yes, it WAS a spiritual death and their communion with God was now broken. The remedy to this is the new birth! Jesus said in John 3:3 "Verily, verily, (and this means very important) Except a man be born-again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Trusting in your denomination will not put you back into fellowship with God. Church was meant to be a place to point people TO Christ, not TAKE THE PLACE of Christ!

God, and God alone, can restore a person to Him. That's why our faith must be put "in Christ" and what He did on the cross FOR us, AND NOT in our good works. Our only "saving" work is to believe "in Christ". Then good works will follow, but they cannot save. Jesus said (speaking of Himself) I am the way, the truth, and the life." He did not say he is one of many ways (church, good works etc.)

He, and He alone can save. There is salvation in no other.
Trusting in Jesus brings the new birth: a restoration of the soul to God!
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replied to:  lucaspa
Masada007
Replied to:  Yahweh is spirit, not physical. So it is unclear whether...
The Myth of Eternal Life (In reply to the Tree of Life)

That's a pagan myth that has invaded modern religions as to make people wish to live again. Only in a way it is good because it helps people to behave in a way that will enhance their hope to live forever. But eternal life is an attribute that belongs with God only. The rest of us will all die because of the fact that we have been born. We are matter, and matter is under the law of genesis and destruction. I mean, birth and death.

How do we know that the attribute of eternal life is not within the reach of man? The answer is found in the allegory of the Tree of Life. According to Genesis 3:22,23 Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden for precisely that reason. They could not eat from the tree of life and live forever. That was the way to say that the attribute of eternal life had not been granted to man.

But then again, according to Genesis 2:9, the Lord God had caused to grow from the ground all kinds of trees good for food. But the tree of life He planted in the middle of the Garden just beside the tree of knowledge, which He had forbidden Adam to eat from or even approach to. Adam did as he had been told and besides the tree of knowledge, the tree of life had not been touched upon. But since Intellect, which is the attribute of knowledge, was granted to man, why was it forbidden to eat from the tree of knowledge?

The prohibition to eat from the tree of knowledge, then, was a catch-22; apparently an illogical rule to enhance man's curiosity. But Adam had taken God's command seriously. Typical of the religious Jewish man. Then, according to Gennesis 2:22, God created the woman, who would take man to the tree of knowledge. And before they ate from the tree of life, they were cast out of the Garden of Eden. They had acquired the attribute of knowledge and denied the attribute of eternal life.

Now, since no man is supposed to die for another, but every one for his own iniquities, according to Jeremiah 31:30, the attribute of eternal life could by no other means be granted. Nevertheless, the myth continues to be preached up to this day under the pretense of Christian redemption, which is possible only by blind faith.
Ben
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