He said, Today , that very day he died! Mike

Well if that is the case, Christ was not in heaven the very day he died. "He descended into Hell. the third day he arose again and ascended into heaven

So that is why I am trying to verify the meaning of his comment to the good thief.

This is an interesting observation. There are several interpetations that should be looked at for you to make a decision. I would recommend checking out the creeds of the early church , the Niceen Creed would be the one I would look into. See what the early church fathers believe concerning this. I would also recommend Checking out several New Testament commentaries including Burton Coffman online New Testament Commentaries to get a broad view from current theologians concerning this question. You may not be able to get a consise understanding of this verse without doing some research on your own. If you want my opinion on this I can only say that the spirit of christ is ever present and never in one place and not another. In other words god is omnipresent. Your question presupposes a literal translation and it may be that this verse is more symbolic in nature. Lastly I only want to say that some have suggested that all those who died before the death and resurrection were in waiting in some lower state of paridise and could not enter god's rest until christ opened the way. I not sure I have been of any real help here. Mike

Dear Mike, Thank you for your answer. My understanding of "descending into hell" was that meant into purgatory to free all the souls waiting for his saving and allowing them into heaven.

Yet, that still does not explain whether he will be with him (the good thief)in heaven that day or when Christ himself went into heaven after his 'chore'
in purgatory. So I am still amabivalent about the meaning of his words.

Perhaps the difficulty lies not in the actual words but in the meaning behind them.

was Christ saying to this man, you will go to heaven despite your bad acts because you have accepted me as your Savior

or

was Christ saying to this man, you will follow me into hell this day and then I shall lift you up with my sacrifice and you will then go to heaven with everyone else I am saving because you have accepted me as your Savior.

either way, the message is the same
we are saved and going to heaven

and that would be the point...right?

when ever you need answers look to the Light not the darkness. All the answers are found in the Light

Dawn

Thank you Dawn,

I guess it is all a matter of individual interpretation. Thank you and God Bless!!

Dear,emiarmstrong

I detect you are a catholic and therefore would be impressed with a somewhat different take on this verse. However, I do not think this verse is dealing with the concept of purgatory. I believe that concept can be found in 1 Corinthians 3:15 – Saved through Fire. In any case when I think about the nature of hope as is portrayed in the old testament you might agree with me that those old testament saints had their faith based in the future coming Messiah. It was necessary for them to follow the law and all its ordinances and should be understood that there was never remission of sins without the shedding of blood. Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things, according to the law, are cleansed with blood: and without shedding of blood there is no remission. Darby Bible Translation. But from the beginning the patriarch’s hope was in a coming Deliverer as portrayed in the book of Isaiah chapter 53. So with this in mind there was a continual need of spilling of innocent blood for the sins of the people . However, sheep and goats and the like were not sufficient and did not satisfy God. Isaiah 1:11 I'm not pleased with the blood of bulls, lambs, or male goats. To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: ...With the coming of Christ these laws and ordinances were done away with and once and for all by Christ sacrifice and the shedding of his innocent blood. Colossians 2:14 (King James Version) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;. So the sacrifice was retroactive and futuristic in its effect on all who put faith in the coming Messiah and all those like us who are still ingesting him by faith. So he opened the way to paradise to those old testament saints who had died and were waiting for him. But it is not impied in the text of scripture that purgatory is involved in this decent into hell allusion. Now back to your original question and where the thief went and when he went their. The apostle Paul said , To be "absent from the body" is to be "present with the Lord" (2 Cor. 5:8). Where is the lord then? As I said before God is omnipresent so he is not in one place and not in another but he is everywhere present. I personally think that this particular verse is more symbolic and should not be taken literally. So the meaning here may be an allegory of triumph over the forces of evil by his death and resurrection. Col. 2:15 He made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. ... Also, I would think that being with the lord would imply you were in fact in paradise. What I am trying to say that being in the presence of God's would in fact mean being in paradise!
Mike

You are correct Mike, I am a catholic. Catholics did not think of purgatory as a place of suffering. It is a place of denial waiting to see God. All the good souls and saints that were denied heaven until the shedding of Christ's blood were in purgatory awaiting the opening to them of heaven. They were not in pain or suffering, just waiting for the "doors" to be opened. Christ descended there to tell them their waiting was over.

I understand your explanation of my prior question and I thank you for it as well. I think your last sentence to me says it all.

God Bless!!

Everyone here made excellent points, however:
The word for Heaven or Paradise is actually:
παράδεισος
paradeisos
par-ad'-i-sos
Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.

Therefore - what some say is purgatory, others say was a place only for those awaiting the Messiah. After His death, he descended, then ascended three days later. So, what Jesus said was true - the thief was with him in paradise.

The Jewish definition of paradise can be viewed at http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=65&letter=P

Another excellent comment. Who would have thought that my small little question would have received so much comment. Im glad it has. It made for a great discussion. I think we all had the same basic answer, but just had different ways of getting there.

Yes, the smallest questions are often the most revealing aren't they?

He is truly wonderful and mysterious

and so very very simple

Dawn

Thank you Dawn, you hit the nail on the head with your comment.

God Bless!!

Regardless how it's been written, He is!

Considering other scriptures I am sure there should be a comma after today We are told in the bible while you are alive to learn all you can, because in the grave to where you are going there is no more knowledge or learning until the ressurrection. Ressurrection seems to occur after Jesus's second coming...All those in the memorable tombs will come out, the sea will give up the dead and those alive will rise to meet him in the air.When this body dies it stays dead, the spirit returns to God who gave it And when Jesus returns we the faithful will have our spirt reunited with an eternal body It( the bible) also says we will know each other Jesus himself said that he has gone to prepare a place for us that where he is we may be also It is not time yet but all the signs of the second coming are with us now I pray we can all stay faithful May God Bless all of us and keep us on the path to eternal life. Drew

He said to the good thief...Today you will be with me in Paradise.

Didnt christ desend into the limbo of the patriarchs (where moses, elija, ect were resting) cause the gates of heaven were not unlocked?

Good catch!!!

One amongst many such discrepencies in the scriptures!!