This is an excellent question because it leads one to question the authority of their "New Testament" at the same time. Christians believe that it is okay to steal the Abrahamic Covenant from the Jews and to teach things contrary to the writers of the gospels in their canon of Scripture have attested to.

For one thing, the Jewish Scriptures are clear that no one can atone for our sins other than ourselves. Then we know through undeniable evidence with the exception of six letters from Paul that the New Testament is written by unknown authors or are absolute forgeries. Now, you ask the question, "Why do Christians feel themselves more CLOSE to Jews..." with good reason. Christianity is a cult, a huge cult with many denominations. It is also predominantly made up of Christian terrorist networks in the United States. You will seldom hear on the news about Muslims being attacked or defending themselves from Christian attacks, but you will hear more than anything Christians being persecuted for Jesus' sake when the facts reveal that the only reason they are persecuted, as they claim, is because they think they are above the laws of the land because they only answer to the laws of God.

So in answer to your question, the reason is because they want to justify their falsehoods that they base on the Jewish Scriptures, which is against everything Jews represent. In the United States, I have learned from personal experience and watching these politicians like that one Senator in North Carolina, Rep. Sue Myrick (R-NC), and my mayor here in Lancaster, California, that if you do not convert to Christianity then you are guilty of religious persecution and are therefore a threat to society. To protect themselves from being caught with their pants down about their own infidelities to their own Scriptures and to justify these infidelities, they want to brainwash fellow citizens, especially their illiterate counterparts, that they are actually the New Covenant people of God, which is as unfounded as a pig claiming to have mad cow disease. That's a cult for you. Anything goes.

NKingston... what is your Faith?

I am a Qur'anic Muslim, meaning that I am a Muslim based on the Qur'an only. The gospels of Muhammad's companions, their companions, and their companions are called ahadiyth, but I don't follow them unless what they say is supported by or found in the Qur'an as with any other teaching in the world. Also I don't rely on English translations to substantiate what the Qur'an says. Granted, when I read the Qur'an, I always hold it up to the microscope, especially with so many personal interpretations that put inaccurate leanings in the minds of those who are illiterate in Arabic grammar, semitic roots in Arabic, and Arabic idioms. I rely on the Arabic that the Qur'an was initially written in. For that reason, you'll find that my perspective as a Muslim is not always going to agree with those of Islamic sects, which also is prohibited in the Qur'an, and interpretations of Islam by most.

I appreciate your time and concern NK, God Bless.

I too believe that creating divisions is the 'major' deviation form the Quranic laws and principles, that's why Muslims are suffering...if they want to 'confess' or admit...

I don't know Arabic, yet I try to relate to the context and the comparative reading of different translations. I prefer not to follow any interpretation, Hadith, belief or practice which is contradictory to Quran.
May be you could help me understand some of the Ayaat that boggles my mind. I'll appreciate it.

For the above question, I would really appreciate if some Christian brother/sister comes forward, too!

Thanks again!

Hello

sometimes I think NK and Silent are two sides of the same coin....how odd

as a former christian I would like to respond to this discussion. All that you have said about Christians is true but doesn't describe people truly who follow the teachings of Jesus.
These Christians learn the Gospel, may even quote it verse by verse, can tell you where to find anything in their holy book but they do not walk the path of Christ. They take the name of God in vain.

the Gospel of Jesus Christ is useful only in adherent practice.

the linkage between Christianity and Judaism was forged by that obscene entity the roman catholic church at the time of its foul birth.
At the time Catholicism was whelped, the Jews had the money. Rome was falling in on itself and the money it once had was long since fled into northern and western Europe. Jews had suffered great persecution under Roman boots as had early Christians. when the new church offered the Jews a "hand in mutual safety, the Jews accepted gratefully.

the alliance has always been about money and power. the catholic church is heavily involved in the destruction of freedom in the US as is Israel via their leftist, intellectual elite. The RCC has a long history of destroying nations. They are experts at it.

protestant Christianity is just a yapping dog at the feet of these masters

no, I am NOT Muslim. I have no religious affiliation but I know and understand a great deal of world history.

The reason I am reaching out to Muslims is that I see you are being set up as the great satan in what is about to happen. it is no coincidence that the graven image of the devil in Christ based faiths looks a lot like a traditional Muslim man with a beard, mustache, strong nose, slender face, piercing eyes.These images were created by the RCC.

the dark times come my friends. We must unite under God. I don't know we can change what God has begun, but we may be able to slow it down long enough to increase the numbers of the saved. If we don't, a great many souls will be destroyed.

Dawn

now is when you sit back at your computer and say...this woman is insane...

RE: post that began as follows:
Hello

sometimes I think NK and Silent are two sides of the same coin....how odd
-----
As-salaamu alay-kum, Dawn!

I really think your post was totally kewl. As a result, I felt prompted to respond and sort of suck you into the "discussion," not because I'm in a mood to debate, but because I really like your approach and perspective. As you probably have learned about me so far, I don't mind people disagreeing with me, or agreeing with me for that matter, so long as there is something fruitful to bring to the table. SO here it goes.

Dawn said: as a former christian I would like to respond to this discussion. All that you have said about Christians is true but doesn't describe people truly who follow the teachings of Jesus.
Response: On the mark! Even those who preach what is directly from their New Testament and what is concommitantly in line with what a Messenger of Allah would say, they still go in a contrary direction than what Jesus, a strictly Torah observing Jew, is known to have preached, namely the Ten Commandments.

Dawn said: These Christians learn the Gospel, may even quote it verse by verse, can tell you where to find anything in their holy book but they do not walk the path of Christ. They take the name of God in vain. the Gospel of Jesus Christ is useful only in adherent practice.
Response: Again you are on the mark, but I can't believe how this is reality. I try to make sense of what is "common sense" to me yet not possible for those who engage in what is literally a form of witchcraft (by actual definition): "I command you, in the name of Jesus', to be healed!" I had that mark on my forehead for months when Richard Roberts smacked me in the name of Jesus screaming, "In Jesus' name, be healed!" It took about for or five attendants to help me understand what was going on, so since I didn't fall baack, he smacked my forehead again, except harder...

Dawn said: the linkage between Christianity and Judaism was forged by that obscene entity the roman catholic church at the time of its foul birth.
Response: True, and to add to this thought, the Jesus Movement Administration for the following 300+ years was still averse to their rebellion against the historical Jesus. When James took over the movement, Paul was at constant odds with the administration because he was preaching a mythical person in the name of James' brother, Jesus. Then after James' was killed and their cousin Simon took the reigns, the spiritual descendants of Paul continued fighting them. Then when Islam came out of the Jahaliyya Era, rather was reborn through Prophet Muhammad, part of the Jesus Movement joined up with Rabinical Judaism and the other part joined up with Muhammad because he fulfilled the prophecies of the one like Moses in the Jewish Bible. Now that they no longer exist, they are fighting aggainst Muslims, the true heirs to the Abrahamic Covenant side by side with the Jews, something Christianity has no real basis to claim.

Dawn said: At the time Catholicism was helped, the Jews had the money. Rome was falling in on itself and the money it once had was long since fled into northern and western Europe. Jews had suffered great persecution under Roman boots as had early Christians. when the new church offered the Jews a "hand in mutual safety, the Jews accepted gratefully.

the alliance has always been about money and power. the catholic church is heavily involved in the destruction of freedom in the US as is Israel via their leftist, intellectual elite. The RCC has a long history of destroying nations. They are experts at it.

protestant Christianity is just a yapping dog at the feet of these masters

Response: I wish you were lying, but that is historical fact.

Dawn: no, I am NOT Muslim. I have no religious affiliation but I know and understand a great deal of world history.
Response: Your religious affiliation, as you'll find from my fellow Muslims, is none of our business and is something every Muslim is called to respect BECAUSE of what was sent to us in the form of the Qur'an, but in this case the fact that you have no religious affiliation gives us a more "bias" perspective on historical reality. You making note of that fact is very pertinent because you have no ulterior motif in trying to convert anyone to Islam much less any other religion. I appreciate people who are well grounded, Muslim or not.

Dawn: The reason I am reaching out to Muslims is that I see you are being set up as the great satan in what is about to happen. it is no coincidence that the graven image of the devil in Christ based faiths looks a lot like a traditional Muslim man with a beard, mustache, strong nose, slender face, piercing eyes.These images were created by the RCC.

Response: True, but my response to what you just said may come as an insult to Christians; however, if you look at the culture and traditions that existed in the days of Jesus, one of the closest images that you will find in current affairs that represents what Jesus MOST LIKELY looked like is Osama bin Laden.

Another point you brought about, regarding The Great Satan, the Christians are the ones who coined the phrase "Holy War" during the Crusades while forcing their religion on others whether they had an interest or not. Islam has never supported coerced religion, except in the sense that when they are attacked for their religion, they are taught to teach their prisoners of war about who and what we Muslims are before being required to let them go. The objective is not to convert the prisoner or brainwash the prisoner. This has never been the Muslim Prime Objective. The Muslim Prime Objective, according to the Qur'an, is to allow the enemy to find common ground with us and take what he has learned in truth and first hand back home, to help the oppressor see us for whom and what we really are. Our hope as Muslims and believers in the Qur'an is that the enemy will understand us and join the Prime Objective of the Qur'an which is to reduce oppression. The Secondary Objective of the Qur'an is to fulfill Allah's Abrahamic covenant to the Jews, namely keeping the promise to Abraham eternal through complete submission to the God of the Jews, who in Arabic is called Allah.

During the Crusades, the Christians were oppressing the Muslims which forced the Muslims into what is known as Jihad, in Arabic. As you probably already know, √jhd means strife, struggle, being challenged, and so on. When in their self-defense the Muslims cry out "Jihad!" they are actually shouting, "Hard times!" That's exactly what the Christians were exacting on anyone who did not convert to their religion, and, now instead of doing that and because people are not afraid to defend themselves with equal or greater force, they cry out in the media, "...The Christians are being persecuted for Jesus' sake!" What cowards! Sorry for that necessary interjection, but that's what I believe ALL Christians represent - outright cowardice when their bullying proves to no longer work.

Now we enter the modern age of the Christian Crusade where they celebrate the martyrdom of those who were killed for engaging in the holocaust of close to 60 to 80 million Muslims during the first few Crusades, a day we once called "All Saints' Eve," but it is best known today as Halloween.

The holocaust of the Jews during World War Two is not to be minimized, however. According to the Qur'an, just killing one person is like killing all humanity while saving just one person is like saving all humanity. Now the phrase that Christians applied to their holocaust of Muslims and anyone else who was willing to stand up and defend themselves, "Holy War," is being put out in the media as though the Muslims' cry of "Jihad" means the same thing. I personally resent this everytime it is thrown in my face, and when I have the chance to speak my peace and present the facts, those who cause us Jihad only justify why Christian Americans are viewed across the globe as The Great Satan... because that is literally and exactly what Christian America is.

Dawn said: the dark times come my friends. We must unite under God. I don't know we can change what God has begun, but we may be able to slow it down long enough to increase the numbers of the saved. If we don't, a great many souls will be destroyed.

Response: All things are decreed by Allah. Regardless of what one's religion is, it is not about civil rights of Muslims, but it is all about saving lives, preserving human dignity, and preventing The Great Satan from bullying ANYONE who finds no reason to convert or who has no interest in hearing what they want to say.

Dawn said: now is when you sit back at your computer and say...this woman is insane...
Response: Insane? Aren't we all? Look at me, for example...

(Sorry ..double-postings)

Thanks for your input Dawn!

Wellllll...........thanks for the compliment too...if it is a compliment...just joking...(we have been fighting since our first encounter a lot!!! lol!)

It's really difficult for me to figure out an 'answer' for my question (above)from your account....lol! kindly be specific..my 'common sense' is 'on leave' tonight!

All I could infer is ...you don't have a religion..because you know the 'history' lol!

and....you want to 'save the world' by gathering them ...under 'A God without Religion'...which seems veryyyyyyyy interesting...!

Q: Should this be the SAME God most people belonging to a religion believe in OR some 'new'God you want to introduce us to?
....because God is the God of those who believe in One God and also who don't believe in God at all , alike...?

You want to save all HUMANS yet you just criticised an image of a holy figure in a way that I doubt your intentions, sorry...have to be straight forward to remove my doubt!

plus you made a comparison which intensifies my doubt a little more!!! haha

ALL MEN WILL PROBABLY LOOK ALIKE IF THEY WILL GROW THEIR FACIAL HAIR (NATURALLY)...ESP. IF THEY BELONG TO THE SAME ORIGIN.

I don't mean to offend anyone, as I do not like verbal indecency on account of the teachings of Quran and my family/country values. I believe this is where rule of "veiling" also applies.

'Mad Man' of Khalil Gibran talks very 'wisely'...so there's no need of being guilty of being 'insane'....we all are...this way or that way...as NK said!

S.

BTW,Why did you prefer to disguise as a male (with beard and .....etc...)through your Avatar?

...........................................................
Addition: What 'Insight' do you have about the happenings you are warning for? How and Why? (legitimate questions)

Okay,

Hi Silent.

by your post I see you are referencing Revelation, Daniel and other books. You are saying that what I say is or may be evil.

God is God. When asked who He was, He replied I AM. This is what I believe. It's that simple.

Jesus did not start a religion. He showed the sinners and lost souls the path to God's love and mercy which was there all along. The wickedness Jesus fought was part of the world because many many people had forgotten that God's love is perfect and eternal and that He forgives us our sins as soon as we recognize, acknoweldge, and repent.

I don't equate religion with evil, I'm saying that much evil is being done in the name of religion and we must unite under the Banner of God, regardless of our personal religious beliefs. I'm saying it is time to recognize that evil is being done by evil men and being wrapped in the cloak false of morality.

Once again, men have forgotten that their sins are forgiven as soon as they are recognized, acknowledged and repented, that God's love is perfect and His compassion is endless.

As for my knowledge about history and how it applies to the world I will tell you one thing and it is true

all this has happened before and it will all happen again...on a galactic scale, I might add

wanna know what galactic core explosions have to do with bible prophecy? or how the remaining seven seals not yet broken(my calculations are that the first four are broken, maybe five and the sixth is about to break) relate to cosmic em pulses and dust? want me to tell you WHY the sun will turn blood red and the moon as black as sack cloth? want to know where Wormwood is going to come from and why?
want to know how the story of Noah is going to play out this time? want to discuss where I think all this money the gov't is sucking out of us is going or what the environmental movement is really about?

I study more than just world history and politics. I study geological history, ice core records, astronomy, astrophysics, ancient cultures, myth and mythology and metaphysics and before you go and say something snide about me being some kind of renaissance woman and that you don't believe me for a second...tough shit. My IQ is over 140 on two separate testings.I have a library card and an internet connection. I am scary smart and fully capable of vast amounts of research as I pursue my craft as a writer and consumer of written words (I don't read books, I devour them)
the only fiction I bother with is hardcore scifi and Stephen King(my guilty pleasure). Peter McDevitt and Paul Hamilton are my favorites in scifi.

I am a force to be reckoned with and God wants me this way. I'm out here rallying the faithful. What are you doing?

Dawn

oh yeah, the portrait of Van Gogh that I use here represents, for me, the image of a man who could see the true immense beauty of the world and fought to express that beauty. Van Gogh had no classical education, he didn't understand geometry, the golden ratio or Pi. Had he been educated,I think he would have been a classical artist and not lumped together with impressionists who are little better than daubers of paint.
Starry Night, Van Gogh's most famous expression of the spiral as beauty (he had others too), is proof that even a man who doesn't KNOW can UNDERSTAND.
I also study philosophy.

those who trust in "common sense" should learn to think outside the box for that is where the real truths are

Hi NK,

I'm exhausted after the last post. I've been typing all day but I wanted to say, thank you for responding so well to my last post. I look forward to rigorous debate!

at the moment though, all I want is a beer and ten minutes before the kids come home from school.

thank you my friend
God's love and peace be with you

Dawn

Hi Dawn! Thanks for your response:

1-Kindly make it clear to me, until I see my common sense...returning back to me.....

"The reason I am reaching out to Muslims is that I see you are being set up as the great satan in what is about to happen. it is no coincidence that the graven image of the devil in Christ based faiths looks a lot like a traditional Muslim man with a beard, mustache, strong nose, slender face, piercing eyes.These images were created by the RCC."

"I see" you wrote:

How and Why?

..of course you mean something more than a "Starry Night"!

You wrote you have NO affiliations with any of the religions.

Yet on questioning upon REVELATION, your thoughts were directed to the answer your soul directed you to...

you wrote;

"by your post I see you are referencing Revelation, Daniel and other books. "

I meant " Do you believe that God talks to His people?" in 'THE LOVE OF GODS TOPIC..not here..

I add.."Do you believe He has been talking to Some People in Past"?
...........................................................

2-You have learnt this on account of a 'revelation' or you have created it yourself?

"God is God. When asked who He was, He replied I AM. "

...........................................................
3- You wrote;

"Jesus did not start a religion. He showed the sinners and lost souls the path to God's love and mercy which was there all along."

What do you mean by 'a Path'?

On what basis you can claim there was a man named Jesus..who showed a Path..

4-Did that Jesus claim that he was their to fulfill and establish OLD/PRE-EXISTED DIVINE LAW/SYSTEM?

5- Didn't he inform his people about SINS and REPENTANCE?
Does this obviously mean that everyone is/was responsible for his/her own deed....and not Jesus?

6- Your're talking about a DARK TIME according to prophecies in OLD and NEW TESTMENTS....or of your own?

You mentioned NOAH'S TIME....according to New Testment ..didn't you?

I too am not in mood to go through any arguments like I and NK have had in the "ONE RELIGION" topic..

If you are trying to lead people by becoming a prophet yourself ..then I must say you and MV are the two sides of the same coin...

But

If you are trying to show 'True Meanings' of the Teachings of Jesus alaihissalaam...then I respect and Honour you with all my hearts...

will be back..

RE: post that began as follows:
Okay,

Hi Silent.

by your post I see you are referencing Revelation, Daniel and...
-----
Quick question.
You said: ...all this has happened before and it will all happen again...on a galactic scale...
Question: Do you believe that mythology came out of truth, for example, are you familiar with the Anunnakis, our ancestors? The Sumerican records record the coming of Anunnakis from Nibiru with extremely advanced technology. They are actually the one's responsible for Sodom and Gomorrha be nuked. With all that happened then, do you think all that transpired then and which evolved into what is now Greco-Roman and other ancient myths that what transpires in unwritten history will also eventually become the myths of the future? Do you understand the question? I'm having a difficult time articulating what I want to ask, but this is the best I can do at this time.

Dawn said: I am a force to be reckoned with and God wants me this way. I'm out here rallying the faithful. What are you doing?
Response: I think you make a valid case! lol The question truly isn't about the other guy. It's about the person asking the question, so the target has been shot at and I am forced to reckon with the question, "WHAT am I DOING?" Well said! Very well said!
Nono

To Dawn

You talked about "Judgement"..
We all make use of some kind of Judgement in daily life..
Our eyes can distinguish different colours..with respect to their backgrounds on account of our sight or we can identify different flavours on account of the sense of taste...

We also judge eachother regarding our relationships/dealings...etc..Yet we are not required to make any judgment which is Our God's Right only...this is written in the Book Of Wisdom -called Quran which is also a REVELATION FROM GOD.

You are right , most of the problems in our world are because we have taken this Divine Job in our hands....while we are jugding eachother..we don't realize...that we are also being judged by Him..

We all will be rescued Inshallah , if we all try to PURIFY OURSELVES..from the pollution of False-Regious-Hood..
and revert back the the PURE NATURE OF THE DIVINE TRUTH WHICH IS/HAS TO BE ...ONE..ISLAM.

I personally would never judge/challenge any holy book on account of historical evidence ..if the message it gives is not under/over stood..I respect all the mentioned /un-mentioned prophets in Quran..and all great teachers also like Budha, Confucious, Guru Nanak..etc..for their contribution towards the God's Plan...PURIFICATION OF SOULS...which eventually leads us to ONE AND ONLY GOD...DIRECTLY!

That's why I like Mystic Poetry and Songs...the only thing I don't agree with is. when sufi thoughts become 'Sufism" and our souls remain hanging between a state of divinity and humanity..

We are human and we are required to follow some rules to be eligible of the boarding pass of Noah's Ark of the time..


Islam is like pure water..it naturally evapourates itself from all pollution and contaminations...It has been happening before and is happening now a days...In fact I feel ISLAM IS IN THE PROCESS OF BEING REVIVED...GOD IS TALKING TO ALL OF US..HE IS CALLING US ALL...
IF WE ALL CHOOSE TO BOARD HIS ARK....

There are prophecies of End Times in Quran too..but before that there's a fulfullment of a PROMISE..that ISLAM WILL PREVAIL OVER ALL FALSE RELIGIONS (Including false/sectarian Islam)

Yes.. 'History' repeats itself..because Humans repeat their mistakes...

and..

...any/all type of 'wordly knowlegde' is in vain if it can't help us REACH THE TRUTH..otherwise we all are...no more than the 'jack of a box'..in our ownselves.

Peace!

I think it is because they want the Jews to believe in the faith that they have,because it is believed that they are the chosen people of God.But it should not be that the only focus is on them as this causes division and it is not the answer.So help should be given to anyone and everyone who is in need,and I believe in God that he will make it be realised.

GOOD NEWS:

I Humbly request you to give a read to what Quran wants to convey.
In't it justified?

31:33] O people, you shall reverence your Lord, and fear a day when a father cannot help his own child, nor can a child help his father. Certainly, GOD's promise is truth. Therefore, do not be distracted by this life; do not be distracted from GOD by mere illusions.

[33:39] Those who deliver GOD's messages, and who reverence Him alone, shall never fear anyone but GOD. GOD is the most efficient reckoner.

[46:13] Surely, those who say, "Our Lord is GOD," then lead a righteous life, will have no fear, nor will they grieve.

[10:62] Absolutely, GOD's allies have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

[2:112] Indeed, those who submit themselves absolutely to GOD alone, while leading a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord; they have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

[24:55] GOD promises those among you who believe and lead a righteous life, that He will make them sovereigns on earth, as He did for those before them, and will establish for them the religion He has chosen for them, and will substitute peace and security for them in place of fear. All this because they worship Me alone; they never set up any idols beside Me. Those who disbelieve after this are the truly wicked.

BEST NEWS:

[3:64] Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to God's Will).


So According to Quran Dawn is already a MUSLIM.(Mashallah!)

Wassalam.

Thanks CherryO,

You certainly made some points in your post.Everyone almost forgot the original question...lol!

Nolan,

I hear what you are saying and understand completely. We have much to talk about.

there are many, many levels of myth and oral tradition that I have researched in depth. I am familiar with Sumerian myth as well as Incan, Egyptian, Mayan, Hopi(many South and North American Indian myths) and biblical. Greco-Roman pantheonic gods, the earliest stories involving Zeus, heliocentric worship, the titans and the stories of the constellations and their representative placement in the skies all go back to a great story that has been lost to time.
my studies into astronomy, galactic structure and behavior, astrophysics, ice cores etc have important information regarding these myths and how they relate to what I have been calling the end times.

when I say, this has all happened before and will happen again, I refer to the destruction of at least one civilization that existed about 14000 years ago and whose survivors included a few from 'the ark' of biblical myth who were the last remnants of the technological knowledge of that civilization. The legend of this ark is spread over the entire world and in ancient stories that predate the bible. I am almost certain the ark itself is located in the Himalayas and that this new world came from there.

I have much to impart on this subject and would very much enjoy a conversation and debate on what I've learned. I believe the combination of my beliefs and knowledge are vital at this time. Very few want to listen.
I will create a new topic on this forum under the heading Armageddon.

to find it go to TOPICS...ARMAGEDDON( A,page 49, biblical site reference)....discussions. I will check this for your response. I invite any readers of this post to join us. This will not be a religious discussion but will touch on religious matters. It will require a very open mind and a strong constitution for scary stuff. I warn you, I weep with grief for what I KNOW is coming.

I look forward to meeting you there Nolan.
Dawn

Silent,

I do believe God talks to us and He does so without special effects, through our hearts and souls. Occasionally, He uses a prophet like Muhammad, Jesus, or, in the case of revelation, John.

God has left us many clues about the terrible times we live in and what is coming next.These clues can be found by an active curious mind who is willing to 'think outside the box' of accepted...dogma... both religious and intellectual. (modern Egyptology is an example of intellectual dogma as is the current concept of black holes and their relationship to how the universe functions but at least physicists question the standards of their field, Egyptologists are like horses with blinkers on their bridles, all that exists is what they can see, everything else makes them afraid)

I do not claim to be some kind of seer, mystic, or prophet. That is what I'm trying to tell you. I am just an ordinary woman, very intelligent, well read, with a highly developed ability to find truth, recognize it and and push all else aside. There are many things about God and religion I do not understand and likely never will. Because I am a mere woman, my knowledge and understanding are incomplete and imperfect. I am not claiming divinity nor associating what I say with God's Word.

I do not know the mind of God.

I say I am on this path because God has placed me here because, yes Silent, He has communicated with me through my heart. He does that from time to time.
If you have not heard God's voice, I pity you but I also understand why you scramble to prove that what I say is evil.

Dawn

RE: Post that began as follows.

GOOD NEWS:

I Humbly request you to give a read to what Quran wants to convey.
In't it justified?
-----
Verse Given:
31:33] O people, you shall reverence your Lord, and fear a day when a father cannot help his own child, nor can a child help his father. Certainly, GOD's promise is truth. Therefore, do not be distracted by this life; do not be distracted from GOD by mere illusions.

My translation:
31:33 O Human Beings! (1) Take your Developer (Lord) as a shield, (2) and fear (honor) days parents cannot pay tribute to his child, (3) neither can children pay tribute to his parents in anything. (4) Indeed, a promise of Allāh is truth, (5) so do not be deceived (beguiled, tricked) by the life of the world. (6) Do not let the deceiver deceive you Allāh. 31:34 (1) Indeed, Allāh, knowledge of the time is before (with) Him. (2) He sends the rain down, (3) and He knows what is in the wombs. (4) Souls do not know what you will earn tomorrow. (5) Souls do not know which lands you will die. (6) Indeed, Allah is Omniscient, Infinite Expert. (*)

يَـٰٓأَيُّہَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱتَّقُواْ رَبَّكُمۡ وَٱخۡشَوۡاْ يَوۡمً۬ا لَّا يَجۡزِى وَالِدٌ عَن وَلَدِهِۦ وَلَا مَوۡلُودٌ هُوَ جَازٍ عَن وَالِدِهِۦ شَيۡـًٔا‌ۚ إِنَّ وَعۡدَ ٱللَّهِ حَقٌّ۬‌ۖ فَلَا تَغُرَّنَّڪُمُ ٱلۡحَيَوٰةُ ٱلدُّنۡيَا وَلَا يَغُرَّنَّڪُم بِٱللَّهِ ٱلۡغَرُورُ (٣٣) إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ عِندَهُ ۥ عِلۡمُ ٱلسَّاعَةِ وَيُنَزِّلُ ٱلۡغَيۡثَ وَيَعۡلَمُ مَا فِى ٱلۡأَرۡحَامِ‌ۖ وَمَا تَدۡرِى نَفۡسٌ۬ مَّاذَا تَڪۡسِبُ غَدً۬ا‌ۖ وَمَا تَدۡرِى نَفۡسُۢ بِأَىِّ أَرۡضٍ۬ تَمُوتُ‌ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرُۢ (٣٤)

33. Yā ayyu-hā n-nāsu (1) ittaqū rabba-kum (2) wa (i)xşaw [√xşw] yawman lā yajzī [√jzy] wālidun ‘an waladi-hi (3) wa lā mawlūdun huwa jāzin ‘an wālidi-hi şay’an (4) inna wa’da (A)llāhi ḥaqqun (5) fa lā tağurranna-kumu [√ğrr lā tafu’lanna, 2nd, m., sing., impf. act., energetic mood, Stem I] l-ḥayātu d-dunyā (6) wa lā yağurranna-kum billāhi l-ğarūru 34. (1) Inna (A)llāha ‘inda-hu ‘ilmu s-sā’ati (2) wa yunazzilu l-ğayŧa (3) wa ya’lamu mā fīl-arḥāmi (4) wa mā tadrī [√dry] nafsun māṭā taksibu ğadan (5) wa mā tadrī nafsun bi-‘ayyi arđin tamūtu inna (A)llāha ‘alīmun xabīrun
---
Verse Given:
[33:39] Those who deliver GOD's messages, and who reverence Him alone, shall never fear anyone but GOD. GOD is the most efficient reckoner.

My Translation:
33:39 It is (1) those who (1a) obtain messages of Allāh; (1b) fear Him; (1c) do not fear anyone except Allāh; (1d) and Allāh is enough as Infinite Reckoner. (*)

ٱلَّذِينَ يُبَلِّغُونَ رِسَـٰلَـٰتِ ٱللَّهِ وَيَخۡشَوۡنَهُ ۥ وَلَا يَخۡشَوۡنَ أَحَدًا إِلَّا ٱللَّهَۗ وَكَفَىٰ بِٱللَّهِ حَسِيبً۬ا (٣٩)

39. (1) Allaṭīna (1a) yuballiğūna [√blg] risālāti (A)llahi (1b) wa yaxşawna-hu (1c) wa lā yaxşawna aḥadan illā (A)llāha (1d) wa kafā billāhi ḥasībān
---
Verse Given:
[46:13] Surely, those who say, "Our Lord is GOD," then lead a righteous life, will have no fear, nor will they grieve.

My Translation:
46:13 (1) Indeed, those who said, “Our Developer (Lord), Allāh!” (2) Then it should be established (3) so that there is no fear upon them, (4) and they will not grieve. 46:14 Those are companions of the Garden (the Paradise), remaining in it because of what they used to engage in. (*)

إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ قَالُواْ رَبُّنَا ٱللَّهُ ثُمَّ ٱسۡتَقَـٰمُواْ فَلَا خَوۡفٌ عَلَيۡهِمۡ وَلَا هُمۡ يَحۡزَنُونَ (١٣) أُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكَ أَصۡحَـٰبُ ٱلۡجَنَّةِ خَـٰلِدِينَ فِيہَا جَزَآءَۢ بِمَا كَانُواْ يَعۡمَلُونَ (١٤)

13. (1) Inna llaṭīna qālū rabbu-nā (A)llāhu (2) ŧumma istaqāmū [√qwm istaf’alū, 3rd, m., pl., perf. act., Stem X] (3) fa lā xawfun ‘alay-him (4) wa lā hum yaḥzanūna [√ḥzn] 14. ulā’ika aṣḥābu l-jannati xālidīna fī-hā jazāan bi-mā kānū ya’malūna
---
Verse Given:
[10:62] Absolutely, GOD's allies have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

My Translation:
10:62 For sure! Indeed, there is no fear upon friends of Allāh, neither will they grieve.

أَلَآ إِنَّ أَوۡلِيَآءَ ٱللَّهِ لَا خَوۡفٌ عَلَيۡهِمۡ وَلَا هُمۡ يَحۡزَنُونَ (٦٢)

62. Alā [inceptive particle] inna awliyāa (A)llāhi lā xawfun ‘alay-him wa lā hum yaḥzanūna

[2:112] Indeed, those who submit themselves absolutely to GOD alone, while leading a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord; they have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
---
Verse Given:
[2:112] Indeed, those who submit themselves absolutely to GOD alone, while leading a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord; they have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

My Translation:
2:112 However, whoever surrendered his face to Allāh and he is well behaved, then surely he will have his reward from his Lord, and no fear shall be upon them. They shall not mourn.

بَلَىٰ مَنۡ أَسۡلَمَ وَجۡهَهُ ۥ لِلَّهِ وَهُوَ مُحۡسِنٌ۬ فَلَهُ ۥۤ أَجۡرُهُ ۥ عِندَ رَبِّهِۦ وَلَا خَوۡفٌ عَلَيۡهِمۡ وَلَا هُمۡ يَحۡزَنُونَ (١١٢)

112. Balā man aslama [√slm af’ala, Perf. Act., Stem IV] wajha-hu lillāhi wa huwa muḥsinun fa-la-hu ajru-hu [ajr n.m. (pl. ujur)] ‘inda rabbi-hi wa lā xawfun ‘alay-him wa lā-hum yaḥzanūna
---
Verse Given:
[24:55] GOD promises those among you who believe and lead a righteous life, that He will make them sovereigns on earth, as He did for those before them, and will establish for them the religion He has chosen for them, and will substitute peace and security for them in place of fear. All this because they worship Me alone; they never set up any idols beside Me. Those who disbelieve after this are the truly wicked.

My Translation:
24:55 (1) Allāh promised that those who believed among you and engaged in the good works, (2) surely He should replace them in the earth like those whom He replaced before them. (3) Surely, He settled for them their Standards which He approved. (4) Surely, He will alternate (change) their fear with security. (5) They will worship Me. (6) They will not associate anything with Me. (7) Whoever rejected after that, then those, they are the perverts. (*)

وَعَدَ ٱللَّهُ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ مِنكُمۡ وَعَمِلُواْ ٱلصَّـٰلِحَـٰتِ لَيَسۡتَخۡلِفَنَّهُمۡ فِى ٱلۡأَرۡضِ ڪَمَا ٱسۡتَخۡلَفَ ٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبۡلِهِمۡ وَلَيُمَكِّنَنَّ لَهُمۡ دِينَہُمُ ٱلَّذِى ٱرۡتَضَىٰ لَهُمۡ وَلَيُبَدِّلَنَّہُم مِّنۢ بَعۡدِ خَوۡفِهِمۡ أَمۡنً۬ا‌ۚ يَعۡبُدُونَنِى لَا يُشۡرِكُونَ بِى شَيۡـًٔ۬ا‌ۚ وَمَن ڪَفَرَ بَعۡدَ ذَٲلِكَ فَأُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكَ هُمُ ٱلۡفَـٰسِقُونَ (٥٥)

55. (1) Wa’ada (A)llāhu llaṭīna āmanū min-kum wa ‘amilū ṣ-ṣāliḥāti (2) la yastaxlifanna-hum fīl-arđi ka-mā istaxlafa llaṭīna min qabli-him (3) wa la yumakkinanna [√mkn yufa’’ilanna, 3rd, m., sing., impf. act., energetic mood, Stem II] la-hum dīna-humu llaṭī irtađā [√rđw/y ifta’ala] la-hum (4) wa la yubaddilanna-hum min ba’di xawfi-him amnan (5) ya’budūna-nī (6) lā yuşrikūna bī şay’an (7) wa man kafara ba’da ṭālika fa ulā’ika humu l-fāsiqūna
-----
I don't see much difference between what you gave and what I gave. I imagine no one will argue your good news, eh?

Nono

RE: BEST NEWS

3:64 Say, “O People of the Books (Scriptures)! You ascend to equivalent words between us and you that we not worship except Allāh. We do not associate with Him anything and do not accept some of us as some lords besides Allāh. Therefore, if you turn away, you will say, “Testify that we are submitters.”

By virtue of this verse and by the literal and aesthetical meaning of the word Muslim, I would have to agree that Dawn is a Muslim; however, that is a testimony between her and Allah, not her and us.

Nono

RE: Post that began as follows:

Nolan,

I hear what you are saying and understand completely. We have much to talk about.
-----
I'm on my way there! See you there, Dawn!

Nono

To Dawn,

I never called. 'anything you quoted from Bible', evil..I only think.. it's hard to reach the meanings of many prophecies mentioned in there..you're becoming too judgmental now...

God is close to us just like our Vena Cava.Nothing is possible without His will..only He can guide us to the meanings ..according to our levels of understandings and I call it realization...not revelation.I can't say it relates to IQ , somehow..for sure..it's said that wise people learn wisdom from fools...:)

BTW, you forgot to give me an answer for an important questions up there...

S.

Silent,

you are not as your name implies.

you confuse me with your wild ramblings. I have made no judgment against you. I have not spoken against you.If this is what you see in my conversations here, you are seeing a reflection of your own judgmental nature.

I can find no questions in what you write only statements rooted in your beliefs. I cannot speak to your beliefs, they are yours and God's and not of this mortal coil.

if you want to ask me something, could you do so plainly?

Dawn

I have a question about jewish influence in American politics and our president's current 'truning away from' long held ties between Israel and America.

is this why many Muslims believe the president is such a great man?

how does one reconcile this act, which I see as good, with the evil of his social policies and the imminent destruction of family values, the American middle class, and our economic strength?
people that surround our president are Marxists and they hold no belief in God. I see that as evil.
What does this mean?

What does the word "barak" mean in arabic language, or any other?

Dawn

RE: Post that began as follows.
I have a question about jewish influence in American politics and our...
-----
Dawn asked:I have a question about jewish influence in American politics and our president's current 'truning away from' long held ties between Israel and America. is this why many Muslims believe the president is such a great man?
Response: No, the reason so many Muslims find President Obama doing right is not because he is choosing Muslims over Jews. His position regards what is right regardless of long held ties to Israel. If Israel was in the right, we know that he would support them in the area that they are right. Where they are wrong, he will NOT support them where they are wrong. The same holds true of any nation across the globe.

The change in the political environment is that President Obama is not afraid to stand up for what is right. In American politics, it has been a long held position to stand by Israel because without them the Christian religion would not have a basis for existence. To not support Israel in ALL ISRAELI positions and acts, in the mind of The Great Satan, American Christianity that is, is practically treason against their mother religion. Obama, on the other hand, takes the position of "Do what is right, let the consequences follow." He has stated quite emphatically that he did not run for President to win a second term. He ran for President to do what he believed was right and that he could accomplish for the betterment of the nation. When you look beyond that, you can create any position you want to make Obama look like a bad President. In truth, he is the best President in the history of the United States so far.

All of his policies, if you look at them carefully, are actually bipartisan, but when he incorporates the ideas of non-Democrats, particularly the ideas of Republicans, the Republicans remain intent on their obstructionist partisanship which makes running our government difficult, which behavior is unfair to those they were elected to represent. All of Obama's policies, if you look at them carefully, represent people from both sides of the tracks, and are fair to all parties involved. Whether you want to call his cronies Marxists, socialists, communists, demons, watermelons... if you believe that President Obama does not represent you, then you need to follow through on your position against him by reading everything found at http://www.whitehouse.gov. President Obama represents you just as much as any other American and his efforts, accomplishments, and promises only lead an honest mind to not believe otherwise... whether one likes it or not. He actively seeks to preserve the religious freedoms of all, including the atheist.

Dawn asked: What does the word "barak" mean in arabic language, or any other?
Response: Barak has a semitic origin as far back as Akkadian, the mother language of Hebrew and Arabic. It's root is √brk as in the Arabic word mubārakan which means a person who is a blessing. All words from the root √brk are about good fortune, good living, blessing, favors from on high, etc. Those who know what Obama really represent will know that the √brk shoe fits. I know it fits. I just heard from him the other day, and I feel √brk that he has taken time out of his extremely busy schedule to review my Economic Proposal.

Okay, so you think his economics are based on the best thing for all people...

this means the new law regarding health care is good...correct?

how is it that this 'good law' affects me in the following way

if my child, who is privately insured, falls seriously ill, the new law states that it will review the proposed treatment for the illness and can ultimately tell my private insurer what it can and cannot pay for. My child's doctor cannot decide this treatment, the new law's enforcer's will decide.

if the proposed treatment is expensive and the enforcer's decide that such an expense will unfairly raise the rates of others who also pay into this insurance company, they (the enforcers) can then tell me that my insurance will NOT cover the treatment or will only cover PART of the treatment...that if I want to have the complete treatment for my child, I will be required to use the public healthcare system.

now, I am classified by the American standard as poor. I make around 24k a year with two children. We live carefully. I have always resisted the efforts towards socialism in this country by refusing to accept any gov't aid for myself and my family. This includes medi-care/caid and social security, yet I have always paid into the system I resist because of the law. I am MORE than eligible for aid, let me assure you.

however, if I want to get the best care for my child under this new law, I may be forced to participate in something I find morally wrong...a system which takes from some and hands out to others...reverse slavery (in my mind)....this system is going to pay for abortions...as a moral woman, I want nothing to do with that
this is justified by telling all of us that the benefits of the many out weigh the morals of a few...
to regulate the cost of PRIVATE INSURANCE, which I carry for my children, the new law requires a limit placed on what that insurance pays for.
so, I can let my child suffer or receive partial or inadequate care or pay even more money so that my child doesn't suffer (I have already paid for insurance mind you. I'm not asking for something for nothing) or accept and receive inadequate or partial care or accept public healthcare.

where is the 'goodness' here?

why does this plan reduce the care my mother can receive while demanding that my healthy, soon to be 18 year old, be covered? My mother needs the help. My daughter doesn't.

where is the 'goodness' here?

explain this to me, I am not smart enough to understand...
Dawn

Introductory Response to post that began as follows with email from President Obama in response to my inquiry regarding a problem I have with Health Insurance Companies now that the new law has been put into law.
-----
Okay, so you think his economics are based on the best thing for all people...

this means the new law regarding health care is good...correct?
-----
Dear Friend:

Thank you for writing. I have heard from countless
Americans struggling to afford health insurance, as well as health professionals striving to provide care, and I appreciate your perspective.
After nearly 100 years of talk and frustration, after decades of trying, and a year of sustained effort and debate, the United States Congress finally declared that America's workers and America's families and America's small businesses deserve the security of knowing that here, in this country, neither illness nor accident should endanger the dreams they've worked a lifetime to
achieve.
For more information, please visit: www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/proposal
At a time when the pundits said it was no longer possible, we rose above the weight of our politics. We pushed back on the undue influence of special interests. We didn't give in to mistrust or to cynicism or to fear. Instead, we proved that we are still a people capable of doing big things and tackling our biggest challenges. We proved that this government--a government of the people and by the people--still works for the people.
This legislation answers the prayers of every American who has hoped deeply for something to be done about a health care system that works for insurance companies, but not for ordinary people. For most Americans, this debate has never been about abstractions, the fight between right and left, Republican and Democrat--it's always been about something far more personal. It's about every American who knows the shock of opening an
envelope to see that their premiums just shot up again when times are already tough enough. It's about every parent who knows the desperation of trying to cover a child with a chronic illness only to be told "no" again and again and again. It's about every small business owner forced to choose between insuring employees and staying open for business. They are why we committed ourselves to this cause.
This legislation is not a victory for any one party--it's a victory for them. It's a victory for the American people. And it's a victory for common sense.
Now, it probably goes without saying that this legislation will give rise to a frenzy of instant analysis. There will be tallies of Washington winners and losers, predictions about what it means for Democrats and Republicans, for my poll numbers, for my Administration. But long after the debate fades away and the prognostication fades away and the dust settles, what will remain standing is not the government-run system some feared, or the status quo that serves the interests of the insurance industry, but a health care system that incorporates ideas from both parties--a system that works better for the American people.
If you have health insurance, this reform just gave you more control by reining in the worst excesses and abuses of the insurance industry with some of the toughest consumer protections this country has ever known--so that you are actually getting what you pay for.
If you don't have insurance, this reform gives you a chance to be a part of a big purchasing pool that will give you choice and competition and cheaper prices for insurance. And it includes the largest health care tax cut for working families and small businesses in history-so that if you lose your job and you change jobs, start that new business, you'll finally be able to purchase quality, affordable care and the security and peace of mind that
comes with it.
This reform is the right thing to do for our seniors. It makes Medicare stronger and more solvent, extending its life by almost a decade. And it's the right thing to do for our future. It will reduce our deficit by more than $100 billion over the next decade, and more than $1 trillion in the decade after that.
So this isn't radical reform. But it is major reform. This legislation will not fix everything that ails our health care system. But it moves us decisively in the right direction.
This is what change looks like.
Now as momentous as this legislation is, it's not the end of this journey. It's time to begin the hard work of implementing this reform properly on behalf of the American people. This year, and in years to come, we have a solemn responsibility to do it right.
This does not represent the end of the work that faces our country. The work of revitalizing our economy goes on. The work of promoting private sector job creation goes on. The work of putting American families' dreams back within reach goes on. And we march on, with renewed confidence, energized by this victory on their behalf.
For further information on health care and assistance that may be available to you, you may call 1-800-FED-INFO or visit: www.USA.gov.
In the end, what this does represent is another stone firmly laid in the foundation of the American Dream. We answered the call of history as so many generations of Americans have before us. When faced with crisis, we did not shrink from our challenge--we overcame it. We did not avoid our responsibility--we embraced it. We did not fear our future--we shaped it.
Thank you again for writing.

Sincerely,

Barack Obama

To be a part of our agenda for change, join us at www.WhiteHouse.gov

-----
My next response will be the usual "He/She said:," except rather than put out my thoughts, I am going to utilize the act as if it were Scripture.

Nono

Response One to post that began as follows. My answers can be found at http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act-as-passed.pdf.
-----
Okay, so you think his economics are based on the best thing for all people...

this means the new law regarding health care is good...correct?
-----
Dawn said: if my child, who is privately insured, falls seriously ill, the new law states that it will review the proposed treatment for the illness and can ultimately tell my private insurer what it can and cannot pay for. My child's doctor cannot decide this treatment, the new law's enforcer's will decide.

if the proposed treatment is expensive and the enforcer's decide that such an expense will unfairly raise the rates of others who also pay into this insurance company, they (the enforcers) can then tell me that my insurance will NOT cover the treatment or will only cover PART of the treatment...that if I want to have the complete treatment for my child, I will be required to use the public healthcare system.

The New Law says:
Subtitle B—Enhanced Support for the Children’s Health Insurance Program
SEC. 2101. ADDITIONAL FEDERAL FINANCIAL PARTICIPATION FOR CHIP.
-
Page 432
20 (b) MAINTENANCE OF EFFORT.—
21 (1) IN GENERAL.—Section 2105(d) of the Social
22 Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1397ee(d)) is amended by
23 adding at the end the following:
24 ‘‘(3) CONTINUATION OF ELIGIBILITY STANDARDS
25 FOR CHILDREN UNTIL OCTOBER 1, 2019.—
Page 433
1 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—During the period that
2 begins on the date of enactment of the Patient
3 Protection and Affordable Care Act and ends on
4 September 30, 2019, a State shall not have in ef-
5 fect eligibility standards, methodologies, or proce-
6 dures under its State child health plan (includ-
7 ing any waiver under such plan) for children
8 (including children provided medical assistance
9 for which payment is made under section
10 2105(a)(1)(A)) that are more restrictive than the
11 eligibility standards, methodologies, or proce-
12 dures, respectively, under such plan (or waiver)
13 as in effect on the date of enactment of that Act.
14 The preceding sentence shall not be construed as
15 preventing a State during such period from—
16 ‘‘(i) applying eligibility standards,
17 methodologies, or procedures for children
18 under the State child health plan or under
19 any waiver of the plan that are less restric-
20 tive than the eligibility standards, meth-
21 odologies, or procedures, respectively, for
22 children under the plan or waiver that are
23 in effect on the date of enactment of such
24 Act; or
Page 434
1 ‘‘(ii) imposing a limitation described
2 in section 2112(b)(7) for a fiscal year in
3 order to limit expenditures under the State
4 child health plan to those for which Federal
5 financial participation is available under
6 this section for the fiscal year.
7 ‘‘(B) ASSURANCE OF EXCHANGE COVERAGE
8 FOR TARGETED LOW-INCOME CHILDREN UNABLE
9 TO BE PROVIDED CHILD HEALTH ASSISTANCE AS
10 A RESULT OF FUNDING SHORTFALLS.—In the
11 event that allotments provided under section
12 2104 are insufficient to provide coverage to all
13 children who are eligible to be targeted low-in-
14 come children under the State child health plan
15 under this title, a State shall establish proce-
16 dures to ensure that such children are provided
17 coverage through an Exchange established by the
18 State under section 1311 of the Patient Protec-
19 tion and Affordable Care Act.’’.
-----
My understanding of this seems to me to be quite clear that what you claimed regarding your fears about this new law is actually "contrary" to the law and illegal for medical professionals to do. If your child, who is privately insured, falls seriously ill, the new law states that "In the event that allotments provided under section 2104 are insufficient to provide coverage to all children who are eligible to be targeted low-in-come children under the State child health plan under this title, a State shall establish procedures to ensure that such children are provided coverage through an Exchange established by the State under section 1311 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act’’ versus that "...it will review the proposed treatment for the illness and can ultimately tell my private insurer what it can and cannot pay for. My child's doctor cannot decide this treatment, the new law's enforcer's will decide..." which as we have seen from the new law itself is quite untrue.
-----
Dawn said: if the proposed treatment is expensive and the enforcer's decide that such an expense will unfairly raise the rates of others who also pay into this insurance company, they (the enforcers) can then tell me that my insurance will NOT cover the treatment or will only cover PART of the treatment...that if I want to have the complete treatment for my child, I will be required to use the public healthcare system.

"...if the proposed treatment is expensive and the enforcer's decide that such an expense will unfairly raise the rates of others who also pay into this insurance company, they (the enforcers)"...a State shall establish procedures to ensure that such children are provided coverage through an Exchange established by the State under section 1311 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act." They cannot "...then tell me that my insurance will NOT cover the treatment or will only cover PART of the treatment..." Also they cannot tell tell you "that if I want to have the complete treatment for my child, I will be required to use the public healthcare system." The new law enforces that if you like the insurance coverage you already have and don't want to turn to public healthcare, then you don't have to.

Dawn said:now, I am classified by the American standard as poor. I make around 24k a year with two children. We live carefully. I have always resisted the efforts towards socialism in this country by refusing to accept any gov't aid for myself and my family. This includes medi-care/caid and social security, yet I have always paid into the system I resist because of the law. I am MORE than eligible for aid, let me assure you.

The new law says:
Page 436
21 (f) CHIP ELIGIBILITY FOR CHILDREN INELIGIBLE
22 FOR MEDICAID AS A RESULT OF ELIMINATION OF DIS23
REGARDS.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a
24 State shall treat any child who is determined to be ineligible
25 for medical assistance under the State Medicaid plan or
Page 437
1 under a waiver of the plan as a result of the elimination
2 of the application of an income disregard based on expense
3 or type of income, as required under section 1902(e)(14)
4 of the Social Security Act (as added by this Act), as a tar5
geted low-income child under section 2110(b) (unless the
6 child is excluded under paragraph (2) of that section) and
7 shall provide child health assistance to the child under the
8 State child health plan (whether implemented under title
9 XIX or XXI, or both, of the Social Security Act).
10 SEC. 2102. TECHNICAL CORRECTIONS.
11 (a) CHIPRA.—Effective as if included in the enact12
ment of the Children’s Health Insurance Program Reau13
thorization Act of 2009 (Public Law 111–3) (in this section
14 referred to as ‘‘CHIPRA’’):
15 (1) Section 2104(m) of the Social Security Act,
16 as added by section 102 of CHIPRA, is amended—
17 (A) by redesignating paragraph (7) as
18 paragraph (8); and
19 (B) by inserting after paragraph (6), the
20 following:
21 ‘‘(7) ADJUSTMENT OF FISCAL YEAR 2010 ALLOT22
MENTS TO ACCOUNT FOR CHANGES IN PROJECTED
23 SPENDING FOR CERTAIN PREVIOUSLY APPROVED EX24
PANSION PROGRAMS.—For purposes of recalculating
25 the fiscal year 2010 allotment, in the case of one of
Page 438
1 the 50 States or the District of Columbia that has an
2 approved State plan amendment effective January 1,
3 2006, to provide child health assistance through the
4 provision of benefits under the State plan under title
5 XIX for children from birth through age 5 whose fam-
6 ily income does not exceed 200 percent of the poverty
7 line, the Secretary shall increase the allotment by an
8 amount that would be equal to the Federal share of
9 expenditures that would have been claimed at the en-
10 hanced FMAP rate rather than the Federal medical
11 assistance percentage matching rate for such popu-
12 lation.".
-----
My understanding is that this socialistic form of law is there to help you and your family. This is what I meant in prior posts that socialism and communism have their place. In a Representative Republic like ours, we need this type of law for people like yourself to take advantage of, so if you need it and it's there for you, why not take advantage of it? What could be wrong with do what is your right, especially considering that you have paid and are paying into it? If this socialism, then it sure is serving your best interests, isn't it? I don't see your concern yet. Maybe you can explain further.
-----
Dawn said: however, if I want to get the best care for my child under this new law, I may be forced to participate in something I find morally wrong...a system which takes from some and hands out to others...reverse slavery (in my mind)....this system is going to pay for abortions...as a moral woman, I want nothing to do with that
this is justified by telling all of us that the benefits of the many out weigh the morals of a few...

Response: Referring back to the part of the law that just pointed out, I don't see where any of this claim is true. You are not forced to participate in anything, and as for morality, it is there to "help" you "as needed." Is there anything morally wrong with a law that loves you?

The new law says regarding abortion:
Page 118
10 SEC. 1303. SPECIAL RULES.
11 (a) SPECIAL RULES RELATING TO COVERAGE OF
12 ABORTION SERVICES.—
13 (1) VOLUNTARY CHOICE OF COVERAGE OF ABOR-
14 TION SERVICES.—
15 (A) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any
16 other provision of this title (or any amendment
17 made by this title), and subject to subparagraphs
18 (C) and (D)—
19 (i) nothing in this title (or any amend
20 ment made by this title), shall be construed
21 to require a qualified health plan to provide
22 coverage of services described in subpara
23 graph (B)(i) or (B)(ii) as part of its essen
24 tial health benefits for any plan year; and
Page 119
1 (ii) the issuer of a qualified health
2 plan shall determine whether or not the
3 plan provides coverage of services described
4 in subparagraph (B)(i) or (B)(ii) as part of
5 such benefits for the plan year.
6 (B) ABORTION SERVICES.—
7 (i) ABORTIONS FOR WHICH PUBLIC
8 FUNDING IS PROHIBITED.—The services de-
9 scribed in this clause are abortions for
10 which the expenditure of Federal funds ap-
11 propriated for the Department of Health
12 and Human Services is not permitted,
13 based on the law as in effect as of the date
14 that is 6 months before the beginning of the
15 plan year involved.
16 (ii) ABORTIONS FOR WHICH PUBLIC
17 FUNDING IS ALLOWED.—The services de-
18 scribed in this clause are abortions for
19 which the expenditure of Federal funds ap20
propriated for the Department of Health
21 and Human Services is permitted, based on
22 the law as in effect as of the date that is 6
23 months before the beginning of the plan
24 year involved.
Page 120
1 (C) PROHIBITION ON FEDERAL FUNDS FOR
2 ABORTION SERVICES IN COMMUNITY HEALTH IN3
SURANCE OPTION.—
4 (i) DETERMINATION BY SECRETARY.—
5 The Secretary may not determine, in ac6
cordance with subparagraph (A)(ii), that
7 the community health insurance option es8
tablished under section 1323 shall provide
9 coverage of services described in subpara10
graph (B)(i) as part of benefits for the plan
11 year unless the Secretary—
12 (I) assures compliance with the
13 requirements of paragraph (2);
14 (II) assures, in accordance with
15 applicable provisions of generally ac16
cepted accounting requirements, circu17
lars on funds management of the Office
18 of Management and Budget, and guid19
ance on accounting of the Government
20 Accountability Office, that no Federal
21 funds are used for such coverage; and
22 (III) notwithstanding section
23 1323(e)(1)(C) or any other provision of
24 this title, takes all necessary steps to
25 assure that the United States does not
Page 121
1 bear the insurance risk for a commu2
nity health insurance option’s coverage
3 of services described in subparagraph
4 (B)(i).
5 (ii) STATE REQUIREMENT.—If a State
6 requires, in addition to the essential health
7 benefits required under section 1323(b)(3)
8 (A), coverage of services described in sub9
paragraph (B)(i) for enrollees of a commu10
nity health insurance option offered in such
11 State, the State shall assure that no funds
12 flowing through or from the community
13 health insurance option, and no other Fed14
eral funds, pay or defray the cost of pro15
viding coverage of services described in sub16
paragraph (B)(i). The United States shall
17 not bear the insurance risk for a State’s re18
quired coverage of services described in sub19
paragraph (B)(i).
20 (iii) EXCEPTIONS.—Nothing in this
21 subparagraph shall apply to coverage of
22 services described in subparagraph (B)(ii)
23 by the community health insurance option.
24 Services described in subparagraph (B)(ii)
25 shall be covered to the same extent as such
Page 122
1 services are covered under title XIX of the
2 Social Security Act.
3 (D) ASSURED AVAILABILITY OF VARIED
4 COVERAGE THROUGH EXCHANGES.—
5 (i) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall
6 assure that with respect to qualified health
7 plans offered in any Exchange established
8 pursuant to this title—
9 (I) there is at least one such plan
10 that provides coverage of services de-
11 scribed in clauses (i) and (ii) of sub-
12 paragraph (B); and
13 (II) there is at least one such plan
14 that does not provide coverage of serv-
15 ices described in subparagraph (B)(i).
16 (ii) SPECIAL RULES.—For purposes of
17 clause (i)—
18 (I) a plan shall be treated as de-
19 scribed in clause (i)(II) if the plan
20 does not provide coverage of services
21 described in either subparagraph (B)(i)
22 or (B)(ii); and
23 (II) if a State has one Exchange
24 covering more than 1 insurance mar-
25 ket, the Secretary shall meet the re-
Page 122
1 quirements of clause (i) separately
2 with respect to each such market.
3 (2) PROHIBITION ON THE USE OF FEDERAL
4 FUNDS.—
5 (A) IN GENERAL.—If a qualified health
6 plan provides coverage of services described in
7 paragraph (1)(B)(i), the issuer of the plan shall
8 not use any amount attributable to any of the
9 following for purposes of paying for such serv-
10 ices:
11 (i) The credit under section 36B of the
12 Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (and the
13 amount (if any) of the advance payment of
14 the credit under section 1412 of the Patient
15 Protection and Affordable Care Act).
16 (ii) Any cost-sharing reduction under
17 section 1402 of thePatient Protection and
18 Affordable Care Act (and the amount (if
19 any) of the advance payment of the reduc20
tion under section 1412 of the Patient Pro21
tection and Affordable Care Act).
22 (B) SEGREGATION OF FUNDS.—In the case
23 of a plan to which subparagraph (A) applies, the
24 issuer of the plan shall, out of amounts not de-
25 scribed in subparagraph (A), segregate an
Page 123
1 quirements of clause (i) separately
2 with respect to each such market.
3 (2) PROHIBITION ON THE USE OF FEDERAL
4 FUNDS.—
5 (A) IN GENERAL.—If a qualified health
6 plan provides coverage of services described in
7 paragraph (1)(B)(i), the issuer of the plan shall
8 not use any amount attributable to any of the
9 following for purposes of paying for such serv-
10 ices:
11 (i) The credit under section 36B of the
12 Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (and the
13 amount (if any) of the advance payment of
14 the credit under section 1412 of the Patient
15 Protection and Affordable Care Act).
16 (ii) Any cost-sharing reduction under
17 section 1402 of thePatient Protection and
18 Affordable Care Act (and the amount (if
19 any) of the advance payment of the reduc-
20 tion under section 1412 of the Patient Pro-
21 tection and Affordable Care Act).
22 (B) SEGREGATION OF FUNDS.—In the case
23 of a plan to which subparagraph (A) applies, the
24 issuer of the plan shall, out of amounts not de-
25 scribed in subparagraph (A), segregate an
Pagee 124
1 amount equal to the actuarial amounts deter-
2 mined under subparagraph (C) for all enrollees
3 from the amounts described in subparagraph
4 (A).
5 (C) ACTUARIAL VALUE OF OPTIONAL SERV-
6 ICE COVERAGE.—
7 (i) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall
8 estimate the basic per enrollee, per month
9 cost, determined on an average actuarial
10 basis, for including coverage under a quali-
11 fied health plan of the services described in
12 paragraph (1)(B)(i).
13 (ii) CONSIDERATIONS.—In making
14 such estimate, the Secretary—
15 (I) may take into account the im-
16 pact on overall costs of the inclusion of
17 such coverage, but may not take into
18 account any cost reduction estimated
19 to result from such services, including
20 prenatal care, delivery, or postnatal
21 care;
22 (II) shall estimate such costs as if
23 such coverage were included for the en-
24 tire population covered; and
Page 125
1 (III) may not estimate such a cost
2 at less than $1 per enrollee, per month.
3 (3) PROVIDER CONSCIENCE PROTECTIONS.—No
4 individual health care provider or health care facility
5 may be discriminated against because of a willingness
6 or an unwillingness, if doing so is contrary to the re-
7 ligious or moral beliefs of the provider or facility, to
8 provide, pay for, provide coverage of, or refer for
9 abortions.
10 (b) APPLICATION OF STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS RE-
11 GARDING ABORTION.—
12 (1) NO PREEMPTION OF STATE LAWS REGARDING
13 ABORTION.—Nothing in this Act shall be construed to
14 preempt or otherwise have any effect on State laws re-
15 garding the prohibition of (or requirement of) cov-
16 erage, funding, or procedural requirements on abor-
17 tions, including parental notification or consent for
18 the performance of an abortion on a minor.
19 (2) NO EFFECT ON FEDERAL LAWS REGARDING
20 ABORTION.—
21 (A) IN GENERAL.—Nothing in this Act shall
22 be construed to have any effect on Federal laws
23 regarding—
24 (i) conscience protection;
Page 126
1 (ii) willingness or refusal to provide
2 abortion; and
3 (iii) discrimination on the basis of the
4 willingness or refusal to provide, pay for,
5 cover, or refer for abortion or to provide or
6 participate in training to provide abortion.
7 (3) NO EFFECT ON FEDERAL CIVIL RIGHTS
8 LAW.—Nothing in this subsection shall alter the rights
9 and obligations of employees and employers under
10 title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
11 (c) APPLICATION OF EMERGENCY SERVICES LAWS.—
12 Nothing in this Act shall be construed to relieve any health
13 care provider from providing emergency services as required
14 by State or Federal law, including section 1867 of the So15
cial Security Act (popularly known as ‘‘EMTALA’’).
16 SEC. 1304. RELATED DEFINITIONS.
17 (a) DEFINITIONS RELATING TO MARKETS.—In this
18 title:
19 (1) GROUP MARKET.—The term ‘‘group market’’
20 means the health insurance market under which indi-
21 viduals obtain health insurance coverage (directly or
22 through any arrangement) on behalf of themselves
23 (and their dependents) through a group health plan
24 maintained by an employer.
Page 127
1 (2) INDIVIDUAL MARKET.—The term ‘‘individual
2 market’’ means the market for health insurance cov-
3 erage offered to individuals other than in connection
4 with a group health plan.
5 (3) LARGE AND SMALL GROUP MARKETS.—The
6 terms ‘‘large group market’’ and ‘‘small group mar7
ket’’ mean the health insurance market under which
8 individuals obtain health insurance coverage (directly
9 or through any arrangement) on behalf of themselves
10 (and their dependents) through a group health plan
11 maintained by a large employer (as defined in sub-
12 section (b)(1)) or by a small employer (as defined in
13 subsection (b)(2)), respectively.
14 (b) EMPLOYERS.—In this title:
15 (1) LARGE EMPLOYER.—The term ‘‘large em-
16 ployer’’ means, in connection with a group health
17 plan with respect to a calendar year and a plan year,
18 an employer who employed an average of at least 101
19 employees on business days during the preceding cal-
20 endar year and who employs at least 1 employee on
21 the first day of the plan year.
22 (2) SMALL EMPLOYER.—The term ‘‘small em-
23 ployer’’ means, in connection with a group health
24 plan with respect to a calendar year and a plan year,
25 an employer who employed an average of at least 1
Page 128
1 but not more than 100 employees on business days
2 during the preceding calendar year and who employs
3 at least 1 employee on the first day of the plan year.
4 (3) STATE OPTION TO TREAT 50 EMPLOYEES AS
5 SMALL.—In the case of plan years beginning before
6 January 1, 2016, a State may elect to apply this sub7
section by substituting ‘‘51 employees’’ for ‘‘101 em8
ployees’’ in paragraph (1) and by substituting ‘‘50
9 employees’’ for ‘‘100 employees’’ in paragraph (2).
[The rest of this section pertains to employers.]
-----
Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on the law as it is written, if anyone has a question about abortion, the subject matter has been deferred to the State, their insurance, and their employer. I hated to post so much of the law, but too many people have taken this section out of context to come up with "Death Sentence" and other types of falsehoods about this law. If you read this law carefully and in full, even though it is 2,409 pages, you'll discover that your concerns are indeed addressed and are not valid based on the law itself versus what obstructionists are fighting to maintain - a point for their Good Old Political party, the GOP. From the beginning these obstructionists have been lying in order to obstruct anything that Obama will get credit for, even if Obama has pointed out that some of the very concepts in this law are actually from the obstructionists themselves. The question regarding your concerns has everything to do with "Who are they serving - you or their GOP party?"
-----
Because your answers are in the law itself, I encourage you to prove for yourself that you, your children, your spouse (if you have one) and your mother are all covered and safe under this new law. Granted, the law is not perfect as is, but it is flexibly written in order for Congress to improve upon it so long as Tea Party goes and other obstructionists begin preaching facts from the pulpit instead of the lies that you expressed concern for as being fact. I mean no offense to anyone, but you are not alone in being misled by blatant lies that are contested by the very source I provided you. It comes straight from the horse's mouth. Isn't that a fair resource to turn to?

Nono

Response Two to post that began as follows. My answers can be found at http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act-as-passed.pdf.
-----
Okay, so you think his economics are based on the best thing for all people...

this means the new law regarding health care is good...correct?
-----
As I noted in Response One which was based strictly on the law, everything you stated is contested with contrary legislation. The concerns you addressed are provided for in legislation now. As President Obama pointed out throughout this year of blatant obstructionism by partisan Republicans has seen blatent packages full of lies by people who never read the legislation as you can see I have done.

Your whole family, every American even, is protected in this new law which is laid out very clearly, and granted there are aspects that may require a little polishing over time, but that was the case with the Social Security Act, another area of our Representative Republic that benefits from another aspect of socialism.

Now, regarding your concerns about socialism, I think it's important to understand that every form of government has its place with the exception of a tyrannical dictatorship. For example, a state anywhere on the globe would not profit from from socialism or a democracy or a capitolistic society completely if its Gross National Product is more than 75% agriculture. It would benefit from communism instead. Socialism, on the other hand, is more extensive than what Americans associate with it. Socialism is not dictatorship or complete government control. Socialism advocates either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources that a state subsists on.

For example, socialized retirement in the USA is called Social Security because in a round about way it promotes the taxpayer who pays into it (who owns his/her vested share of it) to be taken care of in a necessarily socialized manner (i.e.: Medicare, Social Security pension income, and so on) when they reach a certain age, which we call retirement age.

Another example, socialized medicine in Canada is something I hear from every Canadian I have ever met as being one of the best health care systems in the world while criticized by Americans who know nothing about it, and who have apparently have never asked a Canadian about it. Canadians I meet always boast about how much better it is than the so-called best health care in the world boasted of by some rare members of the United States' Congress, but that is not true. Now that socialized medicine has been legislated in the USA, we can now enjoy the benefits of medical coverage that everyone in Congress and the White House enjoy.

The new legislation "acts" upon the many problems that even I have faced in the past from which I have nearly died due to lack of affordable insurance. Now that this fact has disabled me to where I can no longer work and because I was not qualified for health insurance due to pre-existing conditions, I was literally dying as a result of what people in Congress boasted was the best health care on the planet. Now as a result of Medi-Cal, I am able to get the help that I needed to save my life to an extent due to our health care system literally being the primary cause of my near death. With this new law, there is more life saving care that I can take advantage of and which may eventually extend my life and help me eventually return to my career. Until the signing of this Act into law, I really felt there was no need to suffer any more and that as things stood I was by far better off dead. Truly, if it is considered human to lock homeless dogs and cats in cages to be euphemated when there is no more room in the inn, doesn't reason challenge us appropriately to appropriate the same humane act upon humans, by hiring more Dr. Kavorkians? Now that this new law has been passed, our next move is Humane Health Care Reform for the homeless animal kingdom as well.

I hope this gives you "proper" and "true" perspective.

Nono

Sorry Nono, my perspective remains unchanged.

this new law has made a confusing, irritating, unfair, expensive problem worse. Personally, I'm thankful that most of it doesn't actually kick in until 2014....when our president becomes a lame duck, if he's still around.
This time frame gives me time to adapt, gives We The People time to fight it.

as for your firm belief that SOME parts of socialism or communism have a place in the world and are good...I don't think you understand what you are talking about

there is no such things as SOME socialism and communism. In order for those types of systems to function, they must be entire in their application. The entire population must be controlled or it will bleed out and die.

in other words, the really big money will leave. That's happening now in the states. the ones who can afford it and see what's coming are fleeing to Costa Rica, Australia, Chile, Argentina etc.
Those that choose to stay in a communist system are usually corrupt and 'connected' in some fashion to the leaders and rule makers...they are favored, or chosen somehow.

this has happened over and over again and again everywhere socialism has been tried. THe only thing that changes is who is implementing the system and those people ALWAYS think, it didn't work before because they weren't good enough or smart enough to fix it but WE are WAY smarter, way better and it will work this time.

I know YOU have a good heart and good intentions...but, can you vouch for everyone who comes after you? Can you say they will ALL want whats best for EVERYONE...or is it more likely, they will want what is best for groups they find worthwhile?

Nono, what price my freedom from your utopia? What price my freedom from theirs?

Dawn

Hi Dawn:

Good debate. I totally disagree with your whole argument, however, especially considering what we inherited from the recent Bush Regime. Personally, I don't think we can afford to wait until 2014 for the new law to take affect because we need it right now for the best interest of the economy. In Republican Senator Brown's state where it is in place already, there exists sufficient proof (at least for me) that the new law is vital to the health of our economy and is needed like 50 years ago.

Now regarding socialism and communism, we can go in circles on this, but it still remains a fact that one government is not better than another except in terms of NOT who runs the government, but HOW the government is being applied. Look at the example that you provide for the United States. Is it a good government that sends its businesses to "Costa Rica, Australia, Chile, Argentina etc." while the jobs are needed right here in the United States and as the unemployment rate grows worse due to what we inherited from your beloved Bush Regime? Even a Representative Republic like the United States has its place and terms of usage, but just because the United States has been a around for two centuries does not prove that Rome fell in a day.

Then as regards Communism, anyone who claims to believe in Jesus Christ per the New Testament MUST embrace Communism to an extent because that is what Jesus - according to the Christian Bible - taught.

When you put a price on freedom and utopia, it's not all because one form of government is better than another. It's based on whether the right form of government is put in place for the right settings and for the right reasons or else you will have just as you stated, one thug after another in office. Socialism and communism do not have to be all or nothing. There is one example that I gave you on socialism right here in the United States. Why Christian America would be opposed to either Socialism or Communism baffles me more than anything because it was Christian America that instituted socialized retirement (Social Security). This socialized medicine that has just been put into law, effective 2014 unfortunately, is not only good for the national debt, but it is good for the national economy and desparately needs to be implemented for your sake because you have small children and are supporting your mother (if I recall right). Also, being a single mother, you will understand if you review the legislation in full - I believe I gave you the link - that you would be foolish to not support it 100% AND give your input to President Obama where you believe we can do better.

Did you read the whole legislaiton? There's nothing there that you can argue as being bad, but what you can find in there are aspects that "can" be better which is where President Obama's call for ideas and thoughts from citizens of the United States has taken effect. Do you have any suggestions to make the new legislation better? If so, show us the part of the bill that you can argue with, then send it to President Obama.

As it is, he thanked me for the economic proposal that I submitted. What will transpire with it from this point, I don't know, but at least, we now have a President who listens to those he is called to serve unlike the former President who lied to his people time and time again and followed a second standard since day one. In fact, he is the only real terrorist we have ever had for President in my life time. For that reason, I cannot understand for the life of me why anyone can wish him dead and to fail as so many Republicans admit publicly. Every anti-Obama Republican I have ever asked about this bizarre passion has never given me anything straight, educated, researched, or remotely intelligent to justify their extreme anger toward him. He is no god, but he IS the best President the United States has ever had so far, and I look forward to his second term in office. With this FACT, I challenge you to give me some intelligently researched evidenced to prove otherwise. Opinion won't cut it, and heresay won't do.

"We must build a world free of unnecessary barriers, stereotypes, and discrimination.... policies must be developed, attitudes must be shaped, and buildings and organizations must be designed to ensure that everyone has a chance to get the education they need [to] live independently as full citizens in their communities."
-- Barack Obama, April 11, 2008

He is acting upon this apocryphal statement as President of the United States. In fact, although I am retired, I am living a much better life since he has come into office. I submitted my economic proposal with the mission to make a better and freer society for all citizens of the United States, expanding the communal sciences of economy, ecology, and the general welfare of mankind across the globe without imposing upon the legal and mutual rights of others. My question to you, Dawn, is what can you do for your country better than what Obama is already doing for you? He cares about you. He cares about your children. He cares about your mother. What price are you willing to pay for your freedom and Utopia? Is there any "their" freedom or "their" Utopia in the equation? If so, how does one country's freedom and Utopia put a price on another country's freedom and Utopia? Isn't such a concept basically Winney the Pooh floating away with a red baloon?

Nono

So, you're a big man...submitting proposals, being thanked by sitting presidents...congratulations Nono. You are now part of the Big Picture. Hopefully this will translate well for you in the years to come. Here are some things you might get to avoid:

the police state
laundry day at the camp
prison work details
community farms
sound weapons
rubber bullets

I will not debate political systems anymore. There's no point. What has happened has happened. What comes does so very quickly. Future history will tell you and I who was correct and who was incorrect. Perhaps a herd of unicorns farting rainbow skies will tow this world into that future, perhaps not. It no longer interests me.
I am very interested in Iran and nuclear weapons now. I am very interested in the news that Iran might have them in 5 years, that they have arranged to send them to countries in South America in perhaps 10.
Statistically this is like saying; they have them now, we just haven't seen them yet, and; they are shipping them now, we just can't find them yet.
I find it fascinating that, if nukes reach S. America, then no intercontinental guidance technology is required to strike at the great satan. Our satellite defense system will be nullified. Our early warning detection system will be of no use

Nukes can be loaded onto pleasure craft and small airplanes and easily able to hit the refineries along the Gulf, as well as key cities and areas that control most of the natural gas distribution, trade, transportation on the mighty Mississippi, rail hubs etc.
If that happens, martial law will be declared. Bush wrote this legislation and called it continuity of government. Obama re-ratified it very recently. Once enacted, the president becomes more powerful than any other branch of the govt. He will control it all and can do with it what he likes.
I suspect you will be glad you are a muslim then Nono.
I suspect, if this happens, you'd better hope unicorns appear.

Dawn

Sounds like a great movie you're watching. Is it a new version of "Left Behind"?

As far as me being a Muslim, I am more glad to be a Muslim than being a cult member of the Christian religion. Regardless, at least we Muslims are in support of the Constitution of our country. We can't say the same for The Great Satan.

Nono