dattaswami
You can read/download freely the divine discourses of His Holiness Shri Dattaswami from the following link
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God
Divine Discourses of Swami
Posts 1 - 4 of 4
You can read/download freely the divine discourses of His Holiness Shri Dattaswami from the following link
http://www.orkut.co.in/Main#CommMsgs?cmm=100839932&tid=5462706420675434028&na=4
replied to: dattaswami
SamuelStuartMaynes
Replied to: You can read/download freely the divine discourses of...
Dattaswami,
I have been reading some of your postings to this discussion, and I would like to invite you to respond to my recent postings regarding God from a religious pluralist point of view (just search Trinity on this site). Or go directly to my website at www.religiouspluralism.ca.
I recognize that each religion makes absolute truth claims, but I maintain there are three absolutes of creation united in the Trinity. The psychology of each world religion reflects one of these absolutes (or their combinations and permutations).
Moslems (and Jews) may be said to worship the Deity Absolute Creator - in all his austere existential majesty, and they deny he has any Sons or Associates. However, even they acknowledge that Muhammad has a special relationship with Allah, and there are certain Archangels (eg. Michael and Gabriel) who are, if not associates, then ambassadors of the Absolute.
Christians and some Hindus worship the existential Absolute Father through the experiential Universe Absolute Supreme Son - the material incarnation of God, whom I argue will return immanently, in some sort of gestalt of the consciousness of all humankind - Christ eventually returning to earth as the Supreme Being of all humankind - Jesus glorified.
Some Hindus and Buddhists are entralled by the vision of the first person (source) and second person (universe synthesis), consummated in a Synthesis of source and synthesis - the third person - the ultimate existential/experiential Unconditioned Absolute Spirit of All That Is, was, and will be.
For example, Zen Buddhists seem to be looking for a "merging" of their consciousness with All That Is - which in their terms is sometimes called the "emptiness" of Nirvana. My own personal predilection is for Christ, but I ask myself, what is the difference between my preference for "participating" in the Supreme, and Buddhist merging with the Ultimate, or for that matter, the Moslem and Jewish preference for communion with the Deity Absolute alone.
Materialists believe that reality creates consciousness, but perhaps it is also the other way around - consciousness creates reality. This would be just another example of the synthesis of thesis and antithesis, except that when you see past the "contradiction" or "difference" between reality and consciousness, you see that they may well be compatible in a consummation that closes the circle of creation - the Trinity.
I am not claiming "a single, unified God from all these religions," but a Trinity of One multi-dimensional God. This only seems to be a contradiction, but like the persons of the Trinity, they are ultimately compatible, differing only in respect to their relationship in the Trinity of One God. Again, the key is the truth of both sides of great antinomies, and this is fully discussed and authoritatively documented throughout my book, which has substantial passages quoting and explaining the metaphysics of Plato, Plotinus, Locke, Hume, Kant, Hegel, and many other great philosophers. Again, the basic idea is that the absolute contradiction between thesis and antithesis may be resolved in synthesis. In terms of world religions this synthesis is not the spirit of the one, nor the spirit of the other, but a third absolute Spirit of Synthesis - the Consummatior.
You might object that absolute religious differences can never be "absolutely" resolved. Then I would argue that they can at least be "fully" overcome by consummation in the Trinity Absolute. My book is a constructive interpretation, not just of religions, but of the metaphysics of everything. Trinity is the one philosophical inevitability, because it is the only adequate metaphysical vehicle of creation and the psychology of the threefold human soul.
What do you think of my claim that Trinity is the basis of metaphysics?
Do you have anything to say about Immanuel Kant's definitions of God, Trinity, and Soul?
Samuel Stuart Maynes
www.religiouspluralism.ca
I have been reading some of your postings to this discussion, and I would like to invite you to respond to my recent postings regarding God from a religious pluralist point of view (just search Trinity on this site). Or go directly to my website at www.religiouspluralism.ca.
I recognize that each religion makes absolute truth claims, but I maintain there are three absolutes of creation united in the Trinity. The psychology of each world religion reflects one of these absolutes (or their combinations and permutations).
Moslems (and Jews) may be said to worship the Deity Absolute Creator - in all his austere existential majesty, and they deny he has any Sons or Associates. However, even they acknowledge that Muhammad has a special relationship with Allah, and there are certain Archangels (eg. Michael and Gabriel) who are, if not associates, then ambassadors of the Absolute.
Christians and some Hindus worship the existential Absolute Father through the experiential Universe Absolute Supreme Son - the material incarnation of God, whom I argue will return immanently, in some sort of gestalt of the consciousness of all humankind - Christ eventually returning to earth as the Supreme Being of all humankind - Jesus glorified.
Some Hindus and Buddhists are entralled by the vision of the first person (source) and second person (universe synthesis), consummated in a Synthesis of source and synthesis - the third person - the ultimate existential/experiential Unconditioned Absolute Spirit of All That Is, was, and will be.
For example, Zen Buddhists seem to be looking for a "merging" of their consciousness with All That Is - which in their terms is sometimes called the "emptiness" of Nirvana. My own personal predilection is for Christ, but I ask myself, what is the difference between my preference for "participating" in the Supreme, and Buddhist merging with the Ultimate, or for that matter, the Moslem and Jewish preference for communion with the Deity Absolute alone.
Materialists believe that reality creates consciousness, but perhaps it is also the other way around - consciousness creates reality. This would be just another example of the synthesis of thesis and antithesis, except that when you see past the "contradiction" or "difference" between reality and consciousness, you see that they may well be compatible in a consummation that closes the circle of creation - the Trinity.
I am not claiming "a single, unified God from all these religions," but a Trinity of One multi-dimensional God. This only seems to be a contradiction, but like the persons of the Trinity, they are ultimately compatible, differing only in respect to their relationship in the Trinity of One God. Again, the key is the truth of both sides of great antinomies, and this is fully discussed and authoritatively documented throughout my book, which has substantial passages quoting and explaining the metaphysics of Plato, Plotinus, Locke, Hume, Kant, Hegel, and many other great philosophers. Again, the basic idea is that the absolute contradiction between thesis and antithesis may be resolved in synthesis. In terms of world religions this synthesis is not the spirit of the one, nor the spirit of the other, but a third absolute Spirit of Synthesis - the Consummatior.
You might object that absolute religious differences can never be "absolutely" resolved. Then I would argue that they can at least be "fully" overcome by consummation in the Trinity Absolute. My book is a constructive interpretation, not just of religions, but of the metaphysics of everything. Trinity is the one philosophical inevitability, because it is the only adequate metaphysical vehicle of creation and the psychology of the threefold human soul.
What do you think of my claim that Trinity is the basis of metaphysics?
Do you have anything to say about Immanuel Kant's definitions of God, Trinity, and Soul?
Samuel Stuart Maynes
www.religiouspluralism.ca
replied to: SamuelStuartMaynes
SamuelStuartMaynes
Replied to: Dattaswami,
I have been reading some of your postings...
Dattaswami,
What a nice surprise. You found the above message and replied on my website. I'm trying to get back to you directly, but in the meantime, I will leave this here.
Would you not agree that the Supreme (Preserver) Son is different in personality, but the same in spirit as the Deity Absolute Father (Creator)? But Vishnu/Krishna and the Unconditioned Absolute (Consummator) Spirit of All That Is are coordinte cocreators. Therefore, they are different persons, and their metaphysical roles are different, but none are necessarily "smaller" than the others. It is more respectful to call them primary, secondary, and tertiary when you need a label, rather than major, minor, and other complex combinations.
"Absolute God" is not unimaginable. The whole human race have been trying to imagine him for ages, and some progress has been made in recent years. Granted that this is still a work in progress, we now have an operative hypothesis - a coherent abstract vision of the not unimaginable God - that can be turned into a blueprint for peace.
Samuel Stuart Maynes
www.religiouspluralism.ca
What a nice surprise. You found the above message and replied on my website. I'm trying to get back to you directly, but in the meantime, I will leave this here.
Would you not agree that the Supreme (Preserver) Son is different in personality, but the same in spirit as the Deity Absolute Father (Creator)? But Vishnu/Krishna and the Unconditioned Absolute (Consummator) Spirit of All That Is are coordinte cocreators. Therefore, they are different persons, and their metaphysical roles are different, but none are necessarily "smaller" than the others. It is more respectful to call them primary, secondary, and tertiary when you need a label, rather than major, minor, and other complex combinations.
"Absolute God" is not unimaginable. The whole human race have been trying to imagine him for ages, and some progress has been made in recent years. Granted that this is still a work in progress, we now have an operative hypothesis - a coherent abstract vision of the not unimaginable God - that can be turned into a blueprint for peace.
Samuel Stuart Maynes
www.religiouspluralism.ca
replied to: SamuelStuartMaynes
SamuelStuartMaynes
Replied to: Dattaswami,
What a nice surprise. You found the above...
God Discussion Forum Readers,
I hope you will be interested in a further elaboration on the definition of the Trinity Absolute - One God in three persons - one in spirit, universal in reason, and unified in will saying, I am:
1. Deity Absolute Prime Creator - Father/Benefactor,
2. Universe or "Universal" Absolute Supreme Being/Son - Christ almighty supreme oversoul of all humankind,
3. Unconditioned Absolute Spirit Synthesis of Source and Synthesis - All That Is.
Notice that the Trinity is not just the Supreme Being. The Trinity is not one person, but three persons, so technically, the Trinity cannot say "I am" (that would be pre-Trinity thinking). Nevertheless, such a forgiveable distortion tends to occur in shrinking the three persons into one, more simplified, concept of God as one person - the I am.
This leads into speculation on the original condition of the Father, before he begot the Son. But at that purely hypothetical time, he would have been All That Is or was then, which some Zen Buddhists call the great "emptiness." The Spirit of All That Is certainly includes and proceeds partly from, but is not only, the spirit of the Prime Creator (Allah/Abba/Brahma).
By definition of the words themselves, there never was a time before the Primogenitor was Father of the Son. Furthermore, the Deity's primordial act of creation, which makes him the Primogenitor, involved also [u]their[/u] Spirit as well as his Son, as co-creators. He is first of the three co-equal persons of the Trinity, but purely by definition of necessary reason.
There could not have been a time when there was nothing, or there would be nothing now. All That Is would not be who he is, if there was something pre-Trinity. It is doubtful that the Trinity itself appeared out of nothing, and by definition, All That Is knows no other. More likely the Trinity has always existed, like reason itself, "hiding in plain sight."
TRINITY: THE ONE INEVITABILITY
The ‘Absolute’ is an expression that has been used with various shades of meaning by many philosophers, but its modern definition and signification are due to the great idealist philosopher Georg Hegel.
“In philosophy, the Highest is called the Absolute, the Idea… that which we call the Absolute has a meaning identical with the expression God.” – Hegel quoted in Philosophy of Religion – J. E. Smith. P.107.
“(Hegel also held that)… the totality of all things… is the Absolute Idea.” Four Philosophies – J. D. Butler. P.135.
Hegel held that the Absolute is the Highest, the Absolute Idea is the “totality of all things,” and that which we call Absolute is God. But experientially, the totality of all things is the Universe Absolute, and this is the antithesis of the existential Absolute God or the Deity Absolute. On the other hand, if by “the totality,” Hegel means both the mundane and the divine, then he is referring to the Unconditioned Absolute, or totality of “All That Is,” which is not the one, nor the other, but the synthesis or fusion of both.
Making things even more confusing, it must be noted that in addition to the totality of the Universe and the totality of the Unconditioned “All That Is,” there might be said to be also the totality of the Trinity Absolute as a corporate entity – not one person, but a ‘gestalt’ of personal consciousness in a systematic unity – One multi-dimensional God.
Regardless of conceptual intricacies, it is impossible to over-emphasize the importance of the dichotomy of existential versus experiential consciousness, and their synthesis. By many and fair-seeming arguments, for convenience of speaking, and because reason demands a beginning and a Creator; we contrast the thesis of the Deity Absolute with the equally specious argument that science demands no absolute beginning – only universal contingency – which is the Universe Absolute scientific antithesis of theology. Then, by the laws of dialectical logic, we construct a third argument – the Unconditioned Absolute synthesis, which is ultimately based on the other two, and finally incorporated in the Trinity of all three.
Whereas some philosophers emphasized duality as the foundation of metaphysics, Hegel saw through the dialectic of duality to the triad of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis as the necessary fundamental creative equation. Thus, in terms of the Absolute, we arrive at the philosophical inevitability of the Trinity of the three Absolutes of Creation, i.e. thesis: the transcendent Deity Absolute; antithesis: the immanent Universe or “Universal” Absolute; and synthesis: the ultimate Unconditioned Absolute.
Trinity Absolute is the Prime Paradigm and a metaphysical basis for a General Theory of Everything. Trinity Absolute is the first systematic unity of theology, science, and all that is. Trinity is a logical inevitability."
Samuel Stuart Maynes
http://www.religiouspluralism.ca
I hope you will be interested in a further elaboration on the definition of the Trinity Absolute - One God in three persons - one in spirit, universal in reason, and unified in will saying, I am:
1. Deity Absolute Prime Creator - Father/Benefactor,
2. Universe or "Universal" Absolute Supreme Being/Son - Christ almighty supreme oversoul of all humankind,
3. Unconditioned Absolute Spirit Synthesis of Source and Synthesis - All That Is.
Notice that the Trinity is not just the Supreme Being. The Trinity is not one person, but three persons, so technically, the Trinity cannot say "I am" (that would be pre-Trinity thinking). Nevertheless, such a forgiveable distortion tends to occur in shrinking the three persons into one, more simplified, concept of God as one person - the I am.
This leads into speculation on the original condition of the Father, before he begot the Son. But at that purely hypothetical time, he would have been All That Is or was then, which some Zen Buddhists call the great "emptiness." The Spirit of All That Is certainly includes and proceeds partly from, but is not only, the spirit of the Prime Creator (Allah/Abba/Brahma).
By definition of the words themselves, there never was a time before the Primogenitor was Father of the Son. Furthermore, the Deity's primordial act of creation, which makes him the Primogenitor, involved also [u]their[/u] Spirit as well as his Son, as co-creators. He is first of the three co-equal persons of the Trinity, but purely by definition of necessary reason.
There could not have been a time when there was nothing, or there would be nothing now. All That Is would not be who he is, if there was something pre-Trinity. It is doubtful that the Trinity itself appeared out of nothing, and by definition, All That Is knows no other. More likely the Trinity has always existed, like reason itself, "hiding in plain sight."
TRINITY: THE ONE INEVITABILITY
The ‘Absolute’ is an expression that has been used with various shades of meaning by many philosophers, but its modern definition and signification are due to the great idealist philosopher Georg Hegel.
“In philosophy, the Highest is called the Absolute, the Idea… that which we call the Absolute has a meaning identical with the expression God.” – Hegel quoted in Philosophy of Religion – J. E. Smith. P.107.
“(Hegel also held that)… the totality of all things… is the Absolute Idea.” Four Philosophies – J. D. Butler. P.135.
Hegel held that the Absolute is the Highest, the Absolute Idea is the “totality of all things,” and that which we call Absolute is God. But experientially, the totality of all things is the Universe Absolute, and this is the antithesis of the existential Absolute God or the Deity Absolute. On the other hand, if by “the totality,” Hegel means both the mundane and the divine, then he is referring to the Unconditioned Absolute, or totality of “All That Is,” which is not the one, nor the other, but the synthesis or fusion of both.
Making things even more confusing, it must be noted that in addition to the totality of the Universe and the totality of the Unconditioned “All That Is,” there might be said to be also the totality of the Trinity Absolute as a corporate entity – not one person, but a ‘gestalt’ of personal consciousness in a systematic unity – One multi-dimensional God.
Regardless of conceptual intricacies, it is impossible to over-emphasize the importance of the dichotomy of existential versus experiential consciousness, and their synthesis. By many and fair-seeming arguments, for convenience of speaking, and because reason demands a beginning and a Creator; we contrast the thesis of the Deity Absolute with the equally specious argument that science demands no absolute beginning – only universal contingency – which is the Universe Absolute scientific antithesis of theology. Then, by the laws of dialectical logic, we construct a third argument – the Unconditioned Absolute synthesis, which is ultimately based on the other two, and finally incorporated in the Trinity of all three.
Whereas some philosophers emphasized duality as the foundation of metaphysics, Hegel saw through the dialectic of duality to the triad of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis as the necessary fundamental creative equation. Thus, in terms of the Absolute, we arrive at the philosophical inevitability of the Trinity of the three Absolutes of Creation, i.e. thesis: the transcendent Deity Absolute; antithesis: the immanent Universe or “Universal” Absolute; and synthesis: the ultimate Unconditioned Absolute.
Trinity Absolute is the Prime Paradigm and a metaphysical basis for a General Theory of Everything. Trinity Absolute is the first systematic unity of theology, science, and all that is. Trinity is a logical inevitability."
Samuel Stuart Maynes
http://www.religiouspluralism.ca