Hi. First of all thanks for differentiating between the two because it's been horrible since 9/11 and the media hasn't exactly been helping...
The said thing is the religion doesn't even originally have fundamentalism or extremism, but those branches wanted to give themselves an excuse and affiliate them with a group who as they say "does the same thing"
But even before 9/11, life for American Muslims really hasn't been so great. First of all, they question where you're from. They never ask that to Christians, Jews, or even Buddhists and Hindus. Not only that, but they think you're oppressed if you're female and of course, 9/11 comes along to make all our lives easier.
Since then, Muslims have been looked at as terrorist, non patriotic, just crazy and wrong. I am a moderate but strong Muslim and my dad ran for delegate. He didn't win because hater "regimed" against him and made sure the "terrorist" didn't make it.
People heartlessly call you names and don't care to hear you explain the truth because you "already showed it with your actions", ignorant that those are just a bunch or messed up minds and blinded by the media.
Sincere, true, and REAL Muslims who follow the true religion are honest and really want to serve their country. Some of them have run countless times for local and state positions just so that they can help their people and make conditions for them better. People, however, do not see this. Sincere and true Muslims really are your "great neighbor Joe" who does a lot to help others and does it with a good heart and a good intention. NOBODY sees it like that anymore or even gives people a chance to prove who they truly are.
That and more is how 9/11 affected the average Muslim's life. That and more is what makes this country brake apart slowly, slowly. We need more of the people who truly cherish the treasure of this country and know how to take it from there. We need citizens who love all people and are willing to listen to each and every one of them as well as serve them with a pure, loving, and equal heart.
I wish it could get better, and I personally am striving to do so. I started by making programs and starting initiatives that help change that.
9/11's reactions by people as well as many other worldly conflicts also further instigated this relationship of hate which I am also trying to fight in Muslim/Arab communities. People are beginning to transform from country-lovers to hater whose excuses are that the other side hates them as well, thus creating a never ending cycle of hate. 9/11 really made things worse, and the empty-headed criminals who commit the act should be forever ashamed of themselves.

First of all, I like to personalize my responses so if you have something less complicated that I could call you; would you mind?

You can call me Dawn

I understand all that you said about the hurtful, difficult things that have happened to Muslim Americans in this country since 9/11. Know that you aren't the first group that these kinds of things have happened to (historically) and you won't be the last. (unfortunately)

I would like to ask you if you think Christians and Muslims are natural allies? If they are, do you think that the "hidden forces" behind 9/11 are using the war on terror to keep allies apart? Is there anything we can do to change that?

I think a Christian/ Muslim coalition would be a powerful tool in the fight against socialist/communist political agendas in this country.
Do you understand the true war that is going on here in the States? Would you like to?

freedom is everything and diversity is Divine
Dawn

Hi once again. Thanks for being encouraging, a lot of time wanting to get involved can be crushed by not finding people like you who first of all think about it from a human point of view and second of all believe in hope in the future of American people.
To answer your first question, I don't believe any two religions are necessarily naturally allies. Especially because of how many branches of Christianity there are today, unless if you are talking about the original group, there are many differences. Yes, Muslims believe that the Bible, Torah, and Quran were all once the same and Muslims believe in all the prophets they each came from. Although this is true, Muslims wish to be friends with all religions. Although I wouldn't say allies because it's more of a defensive term, I don't think any of them are really natural, but the original forms of all three of the religions do have a common bond and may be considered to some extent natural.
As far as 9/11 being a force to keep allies apart, I do not think so. I think it was a demonstration of the hijackers' anger towards America, and this has a long history. First of all, American aids Israel with billions of dollars a year. The Arab world is aware of this, and because of the atrocities happening to Palestine are completely against it and angered by our continued support. However, the confusion is that they think that every member of American society is aware of how much we fund, is aware of the killing going on, and regardless supports it open-heartedly. See where the problem is? Most people in America don't even know what Palestine is, mostly because they are blinded by the media (once again). Not only that, but there are also the multiple other wars going on in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. in the Muslim world. So basically I think that the crimes were just a response to these feelings rather than breaking apart the allies, although it definitely will be a result of it.
The only way I would suggest changing the problem is by informing about the very things I listed above. I think that when every American knows how many people in Palestine are dying and how much we spend to aid that they themselves will not accept it and will do something about it (just like everybody immediately got up for Haiti, it's just a matter of ignorance).
As for socialist/communist political agendas, I don't think the current administration is pro- either of them and the American people will never stand for such a system to rule anyway. And anyway, if anyone was to fight an American force, you would need people representative of all its parts and groups.
I believe I have my own theories of war in the United States, and I believe it's source is many of peoples' intentions for this country and intolerance and love for others. Before sharing my ideas, however, I would like to listen to yours.
Somewhat a strange question, but what religion are you? You don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable.
Thanks, hope this helps!
Abrar

Abrar,

important things first. I was raised as a Catholic and accepted Christ as my savior for 40+ years then something happened to me, something wonderful.

I found God. This came with a realization that God didn't belong to religion. He didn't BELONG to anyone. He just IS.

When I learned this vast thing, I suddenly questioned the divisiveness of religion in general and the seeming propensity for devoutly religious people toward hate and anger directed toward the 'unfaithful' and those who are 'heathens' (infidels). The more I thought about this and the more I tried to question my personal religious leadership about it the more I realized they didn't have the answers to even my simplest questions.

I turned away from religion and embraced God. I cast aside the hate and fear and turned my face up to His perfect love. My life filled with joy, love, charity, kindness and intelligence.I saw clearly the true evil in the world and it wasn't Muslim or Jewish or even fundamentalism (which I feel is misguided in any religion), it was hate and fear and the power some men wield over the defenseless. I saw clearly, for the first time that God wants me to make the world a better place by shining as an example of faith, hope and charity.

the path God has chosen for me to walk can be lonely and I often doubt that I am worthy of His trust. I often want to go back to my church but when I seriously consider doing that, I get physically ill. I am where God wants me.

I speak to you now as a woman filled with God's love, a woman who lives with strict morals based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, a woman who has sinned, a woman humbled before God.

My new life revolves around reaching out to those who are most hurt and angry. Muslims are facing a terrible time now. You need all the love you can get so I offer you the sincere respect and all the gentleness and intelligence I'm capable of.

America has fallen away from God. God created us all to be free. I think America was His gift to us, a place to truly live as He intended.
Forces in America are trying to create a secular, socialist nation out of a free God loving one. Many are fighting this but many Americans fear that God means religion and that religious control is worse than secular control.
I am trying to spread the Message that God is FREE and that a country without God guiding it is destined to fail. Not many will listen unfortunately. They all want to argue about this bit of diversion or that bit of diversion. They can't see the forest for the trees.

Dawn

Hi Dawn!
I'm not participating in this discussion because I can help you with your answers .I am an un-pragmatic person myself!

I'm born and raised as a Muslim. Interestingly I studied in a Catholic missionary school and taught too. I myself came to the same conlclusion in my life ..that GOD cannot be POSSESSED....He's everyone's and is everywhere..one who seeks HIM , finds HIM..and upon finding HIM ...all the perspective of life and religion is entirely changed. The experience makes you v.humble and un-judgmental about others...You start feeling you are just a 'drop of an Ocean'.He asks you to call others to HIM ONLY...and His true Religion..'JUSTICE!'

Thanks and Regards.

Dawn!

Watch the movies "Khuda K Liay" = 'For God's Sake!'(Urdu)

and

"My Name Is Khan" (Hindi)to have an idea about what could have been happening to 'moderate' Muslims since 2001.

Remember, kindly, that there's no such thing as 'moderation' if it has to be compared with the 'extremism'..which is another absurd criteria.

Actually we 'follow the law' or 'we do not follow the law'.
Everyone is obliged to strive on individual grounds to become a better Muslim and Christian or Hindu...etc...BUT he/she can become one ...ONLY when he becomes a GOOD HUMAN.
They all are ORDINARY people, not moderate...! :)

For People who think RELIGION is nothing but a 'castle of rituals' are FOOLS not Extremists.lol!

I think the War on Terror was a means for Christian politicians and Christian citizens to terrorize all Muslims in America. Islam does not support terrorism, but Christianity has a long history with the Crusades, Jim Jones, Ku Klux Klan, Heaven's Gate, the Trail of Tears, Captain Cook and the Christian Ministers who deceived the Hawaiians, and Cortez and the Christian Ministers who deceived the Native Americans, and so on and so forth, with terrorism, barbarism, and imposed religion. Unfortunately, Christianity is an enemy to anyone who is not a Christian, and the War on Terror escalates that fact.

Islam - true Islam - is a peaceful religion that commands religious tolerance. In Fundamental Islam, one follows the fundamentals, the basics, of Islam which are found in the Qur'an. That means radicalism and extremism are not acceptable. Terrorism, suicide, and murder are all not acceptable. Religious tolerance, pursuit of peace, freeing slaves, everything we find in the Constitution of the United States so far, and things of this nature, are all representative of the Qur'an and Islam. Because these things that are representative of Islam are historically in opposition to Christianity as we know it in the United States as far back as Columbus finding the Americas, I see no hope in American Christians ever representing the same thing.

The United States has politicians serving in high places who are open about their religious stands agains Muslims and which prove that they are all part of the Christian Terrorist Network of America, that which is understandably called by Muslims across the globe "The Great Satan." When 911 transpired, it was preventable. The President of the United States of America himself was warned days, months, and even years in advance about what eventually became known as 911. In fact, I lived for years not believing that I would live to see 911 transpire, but boy was I wrong! BUT when it did actually come to be, who was blamed by the Christian Terrorist Network among whom were the President of the United States of America? Muslims were punished throughout the United States for 911. I was even followed by the FBI for two weeks and didn't even know it until they showed me their badges. I thought they were the Mormon Elders at first, but they looked at each other and then at me, and then they showed me their badges.

As you know, Dawn, I am a moderate Muslim, and I seek peace with my fellow citizens of all religions and all political persuasions, but I constantly walk around anticipating another assault physically or verbally by Christians in my community who know that I am a Muslim and that I am not shy about standing up for Islam in spite of the risk that comes with saying that I have no reason to convert, and that when people ask me if I am saved that I am not afraid to say by definition of the word Muslim I am while not afraid to state why I don't believe in American Christianity in all its forms. For that reason, I take a huge interest in what is transpiring in politics and U.S. current affairs. It's what keeps me bold in the face of daily American terrorism.

First of all, if you really are a Muslim and not just somebody trying to ruin it for Muslims, I am sorry to tell you that you really need to reconsider. When you say Christians, first of all, how do you even know? You can't identify religion by faces (who criticize you)?
Second of all, if you were truly a Muslim and as you said believe in peace and equality, etc., I don't think the way you frame, blame, and/or target a specific group you obviously don't know much of the truth about in that manner follows that.
Also, you can't just say Christians are crazy because of their history and 9/11 could've been avoided, because mentioning it is already contradicting yourself. I wouldn't say that Muslims didn't do it or that it's everybody else's fault, but rather I'd argue that there are crazy people in every religion and just because some Muslims commit crimes doesn't mean they all believe in it or would do so as well. I often think part of whey this Islamic terrorism is so wild is all the hype the media gives it, as there are criminals from each and every religion regardless of its policies (and Islam never encouraged terrorism).
It's great that you have great interest in politics, but it that's how you think and you are unable to respect and tolerate even the majority of America who have only been good to us (and those who call us names, etc. should take the blame, however are ignorant and blinded by the media), then I do not encourage you to do so. Good leaders, especially Muslims ones tolerate and love all people, ones of different religions included.
May God forgive you whether you are Muslim or conspiring against us, and may He guide you to knowledge to improve your thoughts.

Apparently, Abraromeish, you do not live in the U.S. or at least, if you do live in America, you are pretty damned sheltered to say what you have just said. Really, your expectations of any Muslim to sit tight and allow the enemy to terrorize you is mere stupidity and extreme ignorance of what the Qur'an teaches. Either you are pretending to be a Muslim or you are just misguided. I don't know which, but based on your post it is only one of the two.

I will not reconsider what I stated because what I said is fact, not opinion. I do not criticize American Muslim leaders because they truly seek peace and have gone above and beyond tolerance. They put up with a lot more than your post apparently indicates you realize. The Christian religion in America, however, seeks to terrorize Muslims to justify why people should convert to their false religion, and understandably they are the very reason America is known as The Great Satan to Muslims across the globe. As for 911, evidence demands a verdict. That was a Christian act of terrorism, not a Muslim act nor the act of any other group whether religious or political, radical or otherwise. I cannot retract what the evidence provides: President George W. Bush is a terrorist, was responsible for 911, and should be tried for high crimes and midemeanors. That is a fact, not opinion.

I do not say that Christians are crazy, but I do say that Christianity in America is predominantly a religion of terrorism. Christians in America cannot get along with most people outside of Christianity. Evidence demands a verdict. I don't make this claim for Christianity worldwide, but I do accept this as fact for Christianity in America.

As for my desire and pursuit of peace and tolerance, it's all there, true and blue, tried and done, but one thing I think you are ignorant of is the fact that the majority of American Christians are actively seeking ways to terrorize Muslims across the globe, not just at home either, but they go abroad as well, breaking laws to the point of justifying their prosecutions, even well deserved executions at times. Then word comes back to the United States that they were perscuted for Jesus' sake. And they say Muslims are looking for martyrs? LMAO!!!!! Get a life if you believe their reports! To not look at the facts, my brother Abraromeish, is totally against what we find in the Qur'an. We Muslims in America DO seek peace FIRST, and we CONTINUE to seek peace, and we tolerate a lot more than the Christian media gives us credit for, but in America, Muslims are indeed being attacked by hateful, inhumane, viscious American Christians daily. I am a regular victim of Christian persecution by the mere fact that I am a firm believer in the Qur'an, in Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), and Islam. However, even in my own city, we have a mayor who has expressed his intent on making this city a Christian Community and who supports the threats made daily against the Muslim faith here in the Antelope Valley while a council woman claims on Facebook that all Islam is about is killing and beheading their wives and daughters! AND CHRISTIANS IN MY TOWN HERE BELIEVE IT, and THEY ACT UPON IT! These are Christians in power in America! FROM SEA TO SHINING SEA!

That's why American Christians go abroad to exploit vulnerable countries like Haiti by illegally and knowingly trafficking children to the Dominican Republic and use sneaky tactics domestically through community support groups to trick people through often successful brainwashing techniques - to convert them to Christology. American Christianity is not about peace, and may God forgive you for not defending Islam when it is truly being attacked and when it is your duty to be on guard if you live in America where Islam is being attacked by the Christian Terrorist Network.

I seek and pursue peace and tolerance, but when Muslims are being attacked on a regularly basis, just as the Qur'an says, there are things you may not like to do that you must do, but they are sometimes necessary. I live in America. I have travelled much of America. I know America. This is not about respect and tolerance anymore. This is about civil rights and guarding ourselves from those who actively seek to harm, physically and through the media, every Muslim in America, even with bloodshed as we have seen in non-Christian media only in America.

I am very tolerant and I do love all people regardless of religious, political, and life style persuasions, but when it comes to being attacked verbally and physically for being a Muslim, I will take that jihada for what it is and defend myself, my family, my property, and even my faith in Allah. To do otherwise is just sheer nonsense and contrary to what the Qur'an teaches.

As for your last paragraph, "May God forgive you whether you are Muslim or conspiring against us, and may He guide you to knowledge to improve your thoughts," my prayer is that Allah may forgive you for not studying your Qur'an and suspecting what is evidently not true to your allegations of me. You are misguided, a miscreant for a Muslim, and ignorant of your own religion as well as current affairs in America, so may Allah redirect you in His correct ways and guide you to the knowledge that is provided in the Qur'an to help you improve your thoughts and secure your extreme gullibility and utter ignorance of the reality that I know I know and that you OBVIOUSLY only think you know.

Peace out, brother.

To Abraromeish!

Brother you've been too harsh and judgmental about Bro. NKingston....
This is the usual hostility ,generally Born-Muslims posses against the one who embraces Islam through his/her conscious efforts.No one knows who's better than the other...or who will excel in piety...

35:32 Then WE have always made inheritors of the Book those of Our servants whom WE choose. Some of them are hard upon themselves and of them are some who take the middle course, and of them are some who excel others in deeds of goodness by ALLAH's leave. And that indeed is the great grace from ALLAH.

As far as American policies are concerned, there's no doubt remained that they have not crossed the 'limits of tolerance'....People who belong to the counteries badly affected by their terrorism know the truth very well behind the false claims of the 'god' called America......about 'saving the world'!

About Christianity ..Quran says;

[4:171] O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.

So if we say Christianity which actually meant to be 'Islam' does notrepresent the True religion then it's a bitter Truth.( Just like Islam doesn't represent 'Islam' to day)

[5:46] And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).


Jesus a.s.taught people what Allah told him to be taught..he didn't exaggerate any thing as Quran tells us...


[5:116] And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah ? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden ?

5:117 "I told them only what You commanded me to say, that: `You shall worship GOD, my Lord and your Lord.' I was a witness among them for as long as I lived with them. When You terminated my life on earth, You became the Watcher over them. You witness all things.

..and Bro NKingston I appreciate your knowledge and energy...sometimes it becomes very difficult from a 'general-view-point' to approach the matter like you would or any other Muslim would ...so be patient..kindly!

About Leaders, I would say that it's a blessing of Allah that we don't have any priesthood in Islam....secondly the Muslim Leader of East have been having an entirely different appraoch towards the religious matters...now, time and circumstances have changed/improved them a lot, though...!

...still they are ready to take 'Deen' in their hands,,through 'Fatwah-game'...(Quran ascribes most of the leaders may themselves be misguided... if we choose to follow them we will be responsible and answerable to Allah)

The leaders of the West have no choice left for them...except to brighten up the positive aspect of Islam...still you find many of them lacking wisdom when they answer the queries...

I feel , as Allah expect from us...to strive and struggle on individual basis (Jihaad bil Nafs)..

May Allah guide us all..Ameen

Sincerely

S.

To both Silent and NKingston,

Silent, I do appreciate your reference back to piety, but I feel that is somewhat beyond the point or the message I was trying to convey. I wasn't trying to be better show I was, but thank you for the advice.
As for NKingston, I am a Muslim and I am living in America, by the way. I also consider myself American. I have a few questions for you. I don't understand why you are calling me radical if I'm the one saying we shouldn't hate everybody... how do you define radical in your terms?
Another thing is Muslims did do 9/11, and Osama bin Laden himself admit it along with other officers they caught. If you still deny this, there isn't much to say. Based on this, how do you expect others to not think we are terrorist if you are saying all Christians are conspiring against us, etc. when you only heard your mayor or a few others say it? Even if it was a lot, don't forget that America is huge.
Also, how can you determine that person's religion if they are not wearing anything to resemble it? Most men do not have a item to identify them to a particular religion (although jews have yamacas, I am aware).
Please brother, reconsider. If you really are a Muslim preaching peace as you said, how can you not love and accept all nationalities living in your very own country?

My definition of "radical": anything marked by a considerable departure from the usual or traditional, usually extreme.

Regarding Osama bin Laden and 911, if you recall in the beginning he did not take responsibility for it, but politicians in DC were so insistent that he was indeed the culprit that he was more than happy to take responsibility for it after all. HOWEVER, there was no CIA or other intelligence link to Osama bin Laden other than what we now know was false information which is why the CIA and other intelligences directly involved in allowing this to happen are in such hot soup to this day. America will not forget that day, and neither will those directly affected. However, there is plenty of evidence that points directly to President Bush, but moreso toward VP Dick Cheney. Granted, the people who did it were indeed of Mid-Eastern descent and did indeed claim to be Muslims, but they were not the ones behind the whole set up and certainly did not represent Islam. No doubt there. The Christian Terrorist Network of The Great Satan made it look that way. Granted, from the perspective of our media, yes, indeed, it does look like Muslims did it and ALL ISLAM was indeed responsible for it, but it was the Christian Terrorist Network here in America that not only allowed it to happen but set the whole drama up to look like it was an "Islamic" act because they wanted America to a) find a way to authorize putting all Muslims in concentration camps like we did with the Japanese, but that failed as a result of the ACLU and other civil rights organizations interfering; b) to brainwash citizens of America into thinking that Islam is a terrorist religion using 911 as proof, which almost worked until Muslim Americans stood up for themselves and proved that such was false; this was done because the Christian religion is shrinking between 15 - 20% each year; c) to give President Bush an excuse to take over his oil investment in Iraq where we had no business being initially; and d) to divert President Bush's financial cousin, Osama bin Laden from being caught and killed because the Christians in America needed a fellow terrorist to give Congressional approval to make sanctions against Muslims in the United States. The Clinton Administration was closer to killing bin Laden than anyone ever has until now because of President Obama. You need to do your research outside the Christian media, and you'll discover that there is a lot more to the scheming of the Christian Terrorist Network of The Great Satan in America than you will ever imagine, far more than I just pointed out. Michael Moore in his 2004 documentary called Fahrenheit 911 was on the money. His documentary contained absolutely no yellow journalism. Evidently, you missed that too.

The reason I make my claim about The Great Satan of America is because it is fact. Go to a Christian church and listen to the false and dangerous preaching against Islam from the pulpit that transpires on a regular basis. You will hear the same thing that I have in many churches. All forms of Christianity in the United States are the enemy to civil liberties and civil rights of ALL AMERICANS. That's why so many Constitutional violations are committed by our government - because Christian Americans even in politics don't believe they answer to the laws of the land. That is just as evident when these Christian cult members go abroad. Are you not paying attention to current affairs or are you living under a rock? I'm not talking about just their long history with the Crusades and Jim Jones and Heaven's Gate and Jimmy and Tammy Faye Bakker and the Oklahoma Federal Building, and all the crazy, dangerous cults they have had in the news ten years ago, I'm talking about even more recent than these, and most of what I just mentioned are pretty recent to prove my point. For that reason, with all the tolerance I give to those known Christians who have verbally and physically assaulted me and who have used their political offices to threaten the well-being and safety of Muslims like myself, I am doing only what the Qur'an teaches us to do, and that is to be on guard against their evil. Christianity in America is the global axis for evil.

Now, as for your questions, "...how do you expect others to not think we are terrorist if you are saying all Christians are conspiring against us, etc. when you only heard your mayor or a few others say it? Even if it was a lot, don't forget that America is huge. Also, how can you determine that person's religion if they are not wearing anything to resemble it?" Don't be ignorant. When your words make your intentions clear to the point of needing no interpretation, then I think you need to learn English, buddy. Do words of any kind fall on deaf ears?

When a politician like the city council woman who is a well-known member of the local Baptist Church says on Facebook, "This is what the Muslim religion is all about - the beheadings, honor killings are just the beginning of what is to come in the USA. We are told this is a small majority [sic] of Muslim's [sic] in America, but it is truly what they are all about...You disrespect/dishonor them or their religion and you should die (they don't even blink at killing their own wives/daughters, because they are justified by their religion)..." (http://www.cair.com/portals/0/pdf/Sherry-Marquez.pdf), do you expect me to think that the physical and verbal assaults against me because of this posting make it justified and that I should just sit on my hands while getting the turd beat out of me for being a Muslim? If you think I should convert to Christianity to keep peace, you're pretty lame, my friend. Christians know me now, and they are indeed afraid to verbally and physically attack me because by their misfortune, they know that I will and can fight and will not hesitate to protect myself, my family, friends, pets, and property even if it means putting them six feet under. That's not a threat, though; that's just common sense self-defense.

When the mayor says in his state of the city address to a predominantly Christian pastorship, "We’re growing a Christian community, and don’t let anybody shy away from that…I need (Lancaster community) standing up and saying we’re a Christian community, and we’re proud of that.” do you think that physical and verbal assaults are justified that are filtered through this speech as well? Like I said before, I'm not going to sit on my hands and allow the turd be beat out of me for my beliefs; neither will I find that a reason to convert to Christianity as it appears you would do if you were not so naiive about what is going on in your own country.

When a Congresswoman, Rep. Sue Myrick (R-NC), backs an anti-Muslim hate group out in the open and is well received by all her Christian brothers and sisters, does this qualify your position with regard to what I have to say?

What about the Muslim Congressman who was recently called a Nigger by a bunch of Tea Party protesters? Does that qualify your position with regard to what I have to say? This is only a small amount of percution aimed directly at Muslims by The Great Satan. I could go on, but you have access to the internet and other resources. Wake up, buddy, and get your head out of your rectum. You might smell the coffee! lol.

Buddy! Either you have been living under a rock, or you are actually just a Christian in disguise, pretending to be a Muslim! American Christians are all out in the open attacking Muslims in every state and city throughout the United States! Don't you understand anything about jihad or are you just pulling our legs?

I absolutely support peace and tolerance, but I'm not willing to allow my brothers and sisters in Islam be slaughtered in America like the Jews during the Holocaust. I will fight to protect my family, property, pets, and fellow Muslims with whatever it takes. If we are attacked after we have sought peace for decades on end and we continue to have our civil liberties and civil rights continuously and blatantly violated by American Christians, I think it would be extremely naiive on your part to think that there remains room for preaching peace to deaf ears.

I really think that you are either being extremely ignorant about reality in America or you are not really a Muslim at all. I think you need to reconsider your position and start studying your Qur'an because the Qur'an is very clear about what I am telling you and apparently the signs of Our Lord are not being taken seriously as they should be by you. I do advocate peace and tolerance, as I have reiterated many times and will continue to reiterate, but we can only go so far. When American Christians begin to back off and start treating us Muslims like they would like to be treated, which is also a Christian doctrine, then I will be able to take back much of what I have said. Until then, the Christian Terrorist Network of America, The Great Satan, places all Americans, even you, my brother, in grave danger of being exposed to the United States' vulnerability to an huge, unretractable, and detrimental nuclear attack on their own soil. Insha'llah that it never comes to that, but Our Lord is swift in judgment and won't hesitate to kill us all if The Great Satan does not back off.

May you be guided right, and, insha'llah, you will study your Qur'an so that you stop faking to be a Muslim.

Everyone:

WOW! I have to say before I begin a reply to anything that everyone taking part in this debate should be proud and and pleased. I have participated in MANY discussions and intelligent, thought out answers based on facts are very rare. I applaud you all.

let me say thank you to Silent for revealing another presence on this path. Go with God my Friend, much love to you and yours.

I wish to say that the fears against SOME American Christians is founded, regrettably. There is much hate among American Christians for Muslims. This is one large reason I stepped away from my church. Hatred is evil no matter what it comes wrapped in and even more evil when wielded in the name of God. I find THAT to be the core of evil personally.

The big problem here is the media who transmit this vileness for all to look upon. Such hateful people should be shunned and ostracized. Sadly, that is not the case here.
Also I agree that the history of Christianity globally is one of hatred. I believe the Crusades began this rend between me and my Muslim brothers and sisters. The Persian Empire was one of the greatest this world has ever known, ranking up with the lost treasures and knowledge of Egypt, IMHO. After the Crusades, Muslim had nothing but hate for Christians and I don't blame them. Religious hatred has destroyed so much, cost us so much, driven us so hard...

Let's put the blood of the past behind us. Let's not argue who is a better Muslim. Let's talk about our selves as men and women who love our children and God, who see the terrible beauty of the His creation in the smallest things.

How can we change this hatred? How can we stand against the tyranny of evil? Please, everyone, don't get sidetracked. Put aside your selves and your anger for a moment and let God's peace into your hearts.

If we do this together, if we stand together openly, they lose. America has the potential to be one country UNDER GOD but to get there, we must unite UNDER GOD. The concept of America is a work of staggering beauty. I believe this country is a gift from God so I've cast aside the things that bound me to small minded hate.
Who will join me?

Dawn

Silent,

thank you for the suggestions. I will look for those movies. Thank you also for the correction from moderate to ordinary and extremist to fool. Your point is excellent.

I would like to know if you if you have researched the coming prophecies. In my quest to understand this path God has given me, I have done this and found some very interesting things leading to frightening conclusions. These conclusions have led me to start discussions like this one when ever possible in an attempt to...I guess 'wake up' as many as possible and spread the message that it's all about LOVE. I feel this is what God wants me to do, at least some of what He wants me to do anyway.
I am astonished to find that, while doing this, I have attracted the respect of so many people normally wrapped in hate....I had a neonazi ask me to marry him, can you believe it?

::::shaking head:::

Dawn

Dawn, ofcourse, who is there in this world not to join you against hate? I'm in.
As for NKingston, brother/sister, I am a very devout Muslim, so please stop denying that. I am the daughter of a very well-known Islamic leader in Virginia, and I would never be a Christian spy.
Other than that, please do not take this as fighting, I am not attacking you and I hope you are not either, simply discussing, so please do not feel hurt or offended.
Just please keep optimism in all people. I was personally invited to the white house for a dinner with Obama through a group of them. I don't understand... what state are you in? Maybe that affects it...
but please, don't give me history, rather tell me solid evidence on why you hate Christians today, I want to understand, maybe I'll think about it more...
Although I am not willing to make a generalization and hate all people of a certain group just because of one (again, that means they also have the right to criticize us for other Muslims' actions).
Please do not feel upset with me, and I apologize if I bothered you.
Do not leave this discussion on a bad note, we are all Muslims after all...
Peace,
Abrar

As-salaamu alay-kum Abrar:

I don't hate Christians. I don't hate anyone. I just don't like the Christian Terrorist Network and the way they infiltrate through all the Christian churches in America to brainwash Christians into thinking that all Muslims are terrorists, are dangerous, and deserve to be killed and that Christians are justified in doing bodily harm to every terrorist Muzzy who comes their way or whom they hear about.

I'm in California where there is more racial and religious bigotry than the Bible Belt where I used to live. I have heard sermons personally in Christian Churches where dangerous falsehoods have been taught, and I have heard about these same sermons being preached throughout the United States.

I was once invited to a Christian church here in Lancaster, CA, where I live where the Head Minister started preaching against Islam. I asked him to prove his points, so he turned to quotes he had in his "lesson plan" from the Qur'an. I in turn opened my Qur'an on my computer, reread each passage in context - first in Arabic and then in English, and asked him to make his point. Everyone, each time I did this, went completely silent, and the Head Minister would say, "Okay, let's try another one." This transpired about seven to 10 times within a ten minute segment before the Head Minister finally said, "Well, I'll have to do my homework and get back to you, but we'll have this lesson in private next time." It never happened. The brethren asked that we never return.

Prior to that, we were invited to attend a church down the block from us to study the Bible with them. I told them that I was a Muslim and wanted to make sure that it was not a problem. The members loved us and welcomed us in, but somehow this fact about me being a Muslim did not get to the pastor until after I heard him preach that in Islam the divorce process consists of one party saying, "I divorce you" three times. I provided him the passages in the Qur'an that evidenced the falsehoods he was teaching, and I asked him if he was ever going to correct himself before those to whom he knowingly lied to. His reply was that even Christians don't read their Bibles, so why should he correct what he said about Islam? Shortly thereafter, he and the associate pastor came to our home and said that in order for my non-Muslim wife to be welcome she would have to divorce me, and if I were to ever be welcome I was to be silenced. We just chose not to ever go back.

Shortly after 911, I began my investigation Islam. I had to know if what the media was proclaiming loud and clear to be true because I knew many Muslims growing up who had very positive influences on my life although I seriously had no clue what a Muslim was. I had no idea whether Muslims were a race of people or a group of religious people. I made a friend in Oregon named Pete Seda who was my mentor, if you will, the one who guided me through my concerns and questions about "the religion" Islam. He sent me my first Qur'an and literature on Islam. I expressed to him that the only way I knew how to explain what I learned and what I believed was by stating in Arabic the shahada. At that moment, he said, "Brother, why are you asking how to be a Muslim? You already are a Muslim." Shortly, after that a friend invited my wife and me to their church, and we decided to see what they were all about. As soon as the pastor started preaching horrible things about Muslims and Islam and quoting his associates across the country who helped him put his sermon together and who preached the same sermon across the country, I got up and walked out never to return because I knew that everything he was preaching was mere falsehood.

So as regards the attitude I have toward Christianity in America, my investigations went deeper. Now, I just present the facts as they relate to the given topic or the questions I am answering, and the people I am addressing decide what they want to think and what they want to do with my information. I have presented a large amount of facts, facts that consist of solid evidence that I have also provided (I think, at least, that I have provided the links to where you can find copies of the solid evidence you requested), but I do not anticipate providing you with the volumes that exist in a forum such as this. You can do your own research if you want those volumes of concrete evidence because they are available to the public at the great pleasure of The Great Satan.

Anyway, because of my indepth investigation into my former religion which I had problems with doctrinally for years, I was quite pleased to find the consistency that exists in Islam.

Anyway, if you ever see President Obama again, ask him if he ever received my book, "An Economic Proposal: Fact Becoming Fiction." I'm still waiting to hear from that extremely busy man, the greatest President the United States has ever had.

Peace out, Sister.

Nolan

To all brother and sisters who have been/will be a part of this discussion.

JazakAllah!

I would take this opportunity to clarify that I believe we all are ONE, as called ONE COMMUNITY by our God in Quran
( I like the song of Lion King Part 2, very much! :) )

God is ONE, This Earth is ONE, The Religion is ONE..call it ISLAM or JUSTICE in other words and it start running the whole system of this 'Universe'...It was there since the creation of first HUMAN BEING...ADAM and will remain here till the end of times....We all will live and die here...and will be TOGETHER AGAIN....before OUR ONLY GOD..InshALLAH...so let's try to make PEACE with everyone around us...by keep delivering the MESSAGE OF ALLAH..to everyone...it may help make us become PURE..of all the contaminations and delusions of the MAN-MADE RELIGIONS...who have failed to make a human being ...a "human"!

(...and let's not ignore who ask for asking sake only...or for any mischevious purposes...because there is a hope that..they can 'learn' something through it...)

I'am really at Peace since I've found a 'reason' to write for it too..

..Wassalaam

..a Sister

( ..and Hey Dawn...I forgot about another category..'Terrorists'...they can't be 'Extremists'..since they have NO RELGION at all! :))

About Joining any 'group'..

Dear Sis. Dawn..I told you I'm an ordinary person who writes for ordinary people in the name of our God...in hope to make a difference , only...!

I'm too hesitant to join any 'group' ..because I can't be formal...I might keep my self away for a long time..because of different reasons and then become involved again...I can't 'promise' you anything..

It's not because I don't trust you..or I'm 'assuming'...I have many Christian friends...don't worry either way..we are all ordinary victims of mis-guided leaders..!

I had a bad experience with a 'Muslim Group'...I had to quit after my sincere contribution to fight against the 'Sectarian Islam', due to some personal offences..because showed my dislike against grouping....(inspite of the fact that they speak my language 'Urdu'...)

I feel better in the company of Humble and Just people only!
plus..
I don't like people who start 'possessing the religion'..!

:)
............................................................
P.S. (General) I'm ordinary and imperfect and I feel fine for whoever and whatever I'm ,as long as,I can make 'a good use' of whatever I have. Alhamdulillah!

Hello Everyone, I've been gone too long and I apologize! I am speaking in many forums with many people about God and Truth.

Silent: too late my friend, if you understand the Truth about God, then you have already joined. I have no religion only the morality God has seared upon my soul. I espouse no dogma, no gospel, no holy words or rights. Unlike many, I am relieved of the burden of Judgment and have only to live as God intends to lead others to Him.

I can see that everyone has calmed down so perhaps we can begin uniting under God.

First of all, I would like to say that, the most important thing in any of our lives should be love. If you have people around you that you can love, devote yourself to doing that in as many ways as possible.

Maybe we can begin by talking about the many different kinds of love in our lives and how that love brings us closer to God.

I will start by telling you I have two children, a daughter and a son. I have raised them surrounded by the truth of God. My daughter is seventeen, deaf (but uses hearing aids), very beautiful (classically Nordic, slim, long legs, blonde hair, green eyes etc) and lives a very moral life. She finds the concept that teenagers can't control their impulses around sex, drugs, violence, and respectful behavior to be ludicrous.

My son is young, very intelligent and very quick. He doesn't care for sports but has a passion for the engineering of things.

The love they bring to my heart has shown me the absolute perfection of God's morality. They live free, open lives with as few restrictions (mostly geared toward their physical safety) as possible but as much knowledge as I can give them while looking toward me for example. I find that the effort of being the best example I can for my children makes me a better person and closer to God. I do not hesitate to discuss the many mistakes I've made and my struggles to be a moral woman and they listen to these stories and I see that they understand.

truly being a parent is on of the greatest gifts God has bestowed upon me, along with my open heart and mind

Dawn

RE: Post that began as follows:

Hello Everyone, I've been gone too long and I apologize! I am speaking in many forums with many people about God and Truth.
-----
Dawn said:
...if you understand the Truth about God, then you have already joined. I have no religion only the morality God has seared upon my soul. I espouse no dogma, no gospel, no holy words or rights. Unlike many, I am relieved of the burden of Judgment and have only to live as God intends to lead others to Him.

Response: I agree with you, Dawn, but for the sake of my fellow Muslim, allow me to expand briefly (WE HOPE!! lol). There is the religion of God - that which mankind is called to devote their every being, heart, soul, spirit, mind, through every act, word, or thought (Wow, how personal!).

√SLM:
When you accept the "RELIGION of GOD," you engage in salama, an act of peace, trust, surrender, security, safety, etc., and everything else that the root √slm represents and means, in answer to God's call to Islam, meaning "Submit [to Allah]!" "Surrender [to Allah]!" "Be a Peace Maker!" "Be Trustworthy!" and everything else that the command Islam means. Whatever you call your religion does not matter, but if your religion is the religion of God, you then will embrace His command, Islam. When you submit or surrender yourself to Allah, or make peace in a Godly manner, and everything that the command Islam means and represents, you become one who is (mu-) peaceful, trustworthy, saved, and and everything else that the root √slm represents and means. Such a person is called a Muslim.

The Qur'an does not invite people to embrace any type of "dogma," - maybe "dogpa," who knows, but it does direct its message to the Jews and what are called the Nararenes, meaning Christians of the day, with reference to the Abrahamic covenant, the contract between Abraham and his descendants and those who participate in the contract. When it comes to personal morality, as you mentioned, the Qur'an points out what is expected of those who enter the Abrahamic Covenant and in turn reiterates the promises that are connected to that covenant. To a Muslim, the Holy Words of that Abrahamic contract, that was disfigured by rabinnical scribes for their own material aggrandizement, was reiterated in perfection and beauty of the Qur'an in order to resume His promise to Abraham. As Muslims, we believe that in order "to live as God intends [and] to lead others to Him" is by obeying His command which is laid out in perfection and beauty in the Qur'an.

Dawn said:
First of all, I would like to say that, the most important thing in any of our lives should be love. If you have people around you that you can love, devote yourself to doing that in as many ways as possible.

Response:
I, as a Muslim, believe that the most important thing in any of our lives should be obedience to Allah. With every law, there is the consequences of obedience to that law. The process of obedience includes love and being loved and loving. A loving ummah, in my opinion, is the greatest wealth a person on Earth can have, because "I believe" that Allah is indeed Infinite Love. Because so many people are trying to keep up with the Joneses, many are discovering that the Joneses are morally, financially, academically, and socially bankrupt. As is demonstrated in the society that I live in, people are so uneducated that they don't even know how to wear their pants correctly! How starved such people are for loving guidance!

Dawn said regarding her children:
The love they bring to my heart has shown me the absolute perfection of God's morality. They live free, open lives with as few restrictions (mostly geared toward their physical safety) as possible but as much knowledge as I can give them while looking toward me for example. I find that the effort of being the best example I can for my children makes me a better person and closer to God. I do not hesitate to discuss the many mistakes I've made and my struggles to be a moral woman and they listen to these stories and I see that they understand.

Response: I was and still am in my heart a hippy, a Flower Child. The loving surrounding in my hippie community that I had compensated totally for the lack of functionality in my home as a child. The way you speak of your children is the beautiful pride that penetrates the heart of every loving parent like what I remember of the hippy adult who raised me. That, in my opinion, referring to the liberation of children while yet instilling a sense of right and wrong, is also a very important aspect of Islam when it comes to raising children.

When Joseph Smith the founder of the Mormon Church was asked, "How do you keep your people in line? What sort of brainwashing techniques or cult control do you use?" I'm paraphrasing if you decide to Google this. He replied, "I teach them correct principles and allow them to govern themselves." I agree with this concept, and when I think about the many examples of freeing slaves and prisoners of war in the Qur'an, I believe that that is what you are doing with your children and that is also the Islamic way. Our society needs more parents like you, and if Muslim parents are in line with the Qur'an, they will also be following examples like yours.

By definition of the root √slm, it appears to me that you might very well be a Muslim or are at least moving in that direction and not even know it, BUT that is putting the definition of the word in proper context. Whatever the case, I appreciate examples like yours because my two-year-old grandson has already learned to say, "You wanna piece of me! Huh, huh! Come on, you wanna piece of me!" Granted, that's his way of playing around, and I'm proud of how my son and daughter-in-law are raising both of my grandsons, and to see my son play with my grandkids... Well, as a parent, you know too well what I mean.

NK,

I honored by your kindness.

The strange thing about ME (as it pertains to my soul and belief in God) is that I am told I must be a Christian or moving towards that, or a Muslim or moving towards that, very often, both in real life and out here in the electronic world, by those souls that honestly and openly follow God's path.

Alternately, certain left wing types tell me I'm a hateful God lover because of my morality and certain religious types call me a heretic because I refuse to accept religion.

I find all this to be a joke from God. He's pointing at me and saying...see, I told you they needed a common enemy and friend.(His sense of humor is as mysterious as His being, I tell you)

I was also raised by a hippie. She taught me about love and God and freed my heart from judgment.
I added the morals because this world is full of danger and hate and my kids have to know that. It is also full of messages that tell them they cannot control their baser natural instincts (like sex drive and anger and jealousy and greed)

The idea of following Allah's rules...what does Islam say about judgment of sin? what is the correct way to handle something or someone you recognize as sinning or sinful, beyond eliminating that influence form your personal life?
I ask because I see a great deal of judgment of good and evil in the world. I see a great deal of anger and hatred toward those being judged and anger and hate are wrong. I see a world in which men judge other men's souls based on their actions, choices, religion etc. Such a thing is wrong, IMHO.
I was taught that Judgment of Sin is for God alone, that my only mission as a soul was to learn to love and respect the world without judgment.
RECOGNITION of good and evil, in my mind, is not the same as judgment. Recognition is healthy and moral but judgment is not.

Dawn

RE: Post that began as follows:

NK,

I honored by your kindness.
-----
Dawn said: The strange thing about ME ...openly follow God's path.
Reply: Yeah, I get a lot of that too. "Oh, you are definitely a Christian!" they say, but when I say, "No, I'm not a Christian. I'm a Muslim." they change their tone and start tearing the terrorist out in the name of Jesus. lol.

Dawn said: ...certain religious types call me a heretic because I refuse to accept religion.

Reply: What's wrong with being a heretic? Most people who use the word don't even know what it means.

The word "heresy" comes from the Greek hairetikos "able to choose" (haireisthai "to choose"). The term heresy is often perceived as a value judgment and the expression of a view from within an established belief system. So what, you choose not to believe the way a common establishment wants you to? I have the same problem, not just outside of Islam, but even within Islam I find fellow Muslims accusing me of heresy and of not being a true Muslim because often I admit that I do not believe in the traditional beliefs of Muslims that are not supported by the Qur'an. Although I am a heretic, I'm still submitting my life completely to Allah as best I know how, so in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with being a heretic.

Dawn said: I was also raised by a hippie.
Response: So you know precisley the wonderment that comes with growing up with so much freedom and open mindedness. You and I had mutually wonderful childhoods. Does that mean we're from the hood?

Dawn's question: The idea of following Allah's rules...what does Islam say about judgment of sin?
Response: Allah does not support sin, but He is the Infinite Forgiver of sins if you repent. However, it's not like the Catholic or Mormon Churches where confession to a priest or bishop is a requirement for salvation. In Islam, when a person submits to Allah, he engages in a personal relationship with Allah, and that relationship with Allah filters through one's actions, thoughts, words, and activities in the community. It's not up to me or any other Muslim though to judge another Muslim until or unless his sin affects us or the community. Allah is the Owner of the Day of Judgment.

Dawn's question: what is the correct way to handle something or someone you recognize as sinning or sinful, beyond eliminating that influence form your personal life?

Response: Once again, because Islam is about mankind's relationship with Allah, thus filtering into the community, the only way to handle someone else's sin is by setting the example that you want him to follow until or unless his sin affects us or the community and "thus" requires action on someone else's part. Meanwhile, a loving parent will teach correct principles to the child so that he can live successfully, but when he gets older it doesn't hurt to take into consideration the opinions of others. Otherwise, the sinner's sin is dealt with as prescribed in the Qur'an.

Dawn said: I ask because I see a great deal of judgment of good and evil in the world...

Response: Becoming one who submits to Allah does not qualify one to sharing ownership of the Day of Judgment with Allah. Granted, a lot of self-righteous hippocrites exist in every religion, but in Islam our Constitution is the Qur'an and the laws of the land we live in. If a brother is not doing anything that affects you, then he should repent for being such a busy-body who invades the privacy of another person. That's just being a pervert actually.

Dawn said: I was taught that Judgment of Sin is for God alone, that my only mission as a soul was to learn to love and respect the world without judgment.

Response: I totally agree with the concept that Allah is the Owner of the Day of Judgment and Allah alone. Who am I to step into the role of Allah? That would be deifying myself.

Dawn said: RECOGNITION of good and evil, in my mind, is not the same as judgment. Recognition is healthy and moral but judgment is not.
Reply: I agree wholeheartedly, and there REALLY is a difference.

NK

::::sigh::::

if we are both from the Hood, and it appears we are, what is going on with those who came from the same Hood? I mean, what are they thinking about with this push toward Marxism?

Why is it that they don't see or refuse to acknowledge that it was liberty and freedom and wealth and privileged that allowed them to go to places like Berkley and learn about history and why war was bad/ Why are they insisting on destroying the system that gave us the wealth to get university educations in the first place? Why are they letting a bad war continue? Why are they pushing things to become more generalized instead of less specific?

What lesson did I learn about liberty and freedom and God that they did not? I've asked my mother but she can't explain and doesn't know.
How can I see so clearly that they are destroying the one thing that made possible the idea of loving everyone and that the world should be peaceful and they don't?
and, is our president 'from the Hood' too? or is he coming from the point of view of the angry black militants of the same era?

those people were dangerous. they didn't follow the teachings of Martin Luther King, one of the last great prophets and a figure like Muhammad and Jesus, if he had only lived longer,( I bow my head to grieve for that tragedy). I wish he could have been a president, things might be very different today.


God's peace and love to you my brother
Dawn

RE: Post that began as follows.

NK

::::sigh::::

if we are both from the Hood,
-----
Regarding those whom I grew up with from the Hood, most of them have been killed, died, or were people whom I did not really know too well. The reason is because I was a teenage gangster as well as a Flower Child. We were communal and intentional in the lives we lived. I was often scolded for my fighting behavior by my non-gangster hippy parents (I had many) because they did not believe in war, violence, and civil unrest, and for the most part, I did not either. I just hated to be bullied and I hated bullies who felt they could bully me because of my tiny Pacific Islander frame. Boy, did they have something coming to them when they discovered that I fight back. In fact, some of those bullies became good friends eventually.

Meanwhile, the rest of those from the Hood from my day are in politics, are religious ministers, or are successful business people for the most part, as far as I know. At age 46, I am retired and receiving an early pension. Because I was a hippie, libertarianism in its truest sense was in full swing. Marxism was not something we worked toward much less knew or cared about, unless I misunderstand what you mean by Marxism as it relates to us hippies. However, we did strive for peace, non-violence, and liberation of our human nature... whatever we felt that meant to us. In fact, the prophet Martin Luther King's tragic martyrdom affected all of us. He was reverenced by us all as a great American leader.

I'm still the hippie in my heart of hearts, but I'm too sick to be in gangs and am grateful to have gotten rid of the gangster side so early in life. I don't support gangster like activities, but I do understand what motivates gangster living because of my own experience in them. I am also glad that such a conflict with my hippie life style no longer gets in the way of what I enjoy most and believe is right. Granted, although I also believe that MLK was indeed a Prophet of Allah, I do not believe (opinion, not Islamic) that he was not the same as Muhammad, Moses, and other prophets who provided us with God's direct revelation as was the case with the Torah, the Qur'an, and other revelations from prior people. He was, nevertheless, a prophetic Messenger from His Magesty On High as evidenced by the fulfillment of his prophecies that Americans never believed could ever be possible until decades after his assassination. BUT, Muhaamad, I believe, was the last Messenger of Allah with the stamp of Allah's approval. BTW, "seal of the Prophets" is another often misinterpreted translation.

My people were side by side with MLK's teachings and objectives. We strived for the same things as the Honorable MLK. Meanwhile, among us there were many Muslims as well involved in the Hippie Movement, the Age of Aquarious, except they were fewer in number and a heck of a lot more reserved than my crowd. Ask your mother about "Hair" and "Jesus Christ Super Star." Those were from our era. With the dynamic man that MLK was, if he was not assassinated, he surely, I am most certain, and without any doubt in my mind, would have become the first black President of the United States, and my people would have campaigned for him. I can rest assured also that those from my Hood ALL voted for Barack Obama as well.

SO maybe I didn't understand your question or you were misinformed about the Hippy Movement. I think you might want to ask your mother what it was like being a hippy when "she" was growing up because your question certainly does not seem to apply to the Hood as I knew it. That might explain why you said, "What lesson did I learn about liberty and freedom and God that they did not? I've asked my mother but she can't explain and doesn't know." Is it possible that you were asking a question in a way that it did not pertain to her?

By the way, I'm probably the same age as your mother. That would make you my daughter, your children my grandchildren, and your mother my sister or cousin, the way I grew up because we were communal and as a society we raised our children together collectively as our own while still maintaining our legal responsibilities to our children. We all had many moms and dads, grandmas and grandpas, and even a ton more aunties, uncles, and cousins. Shall I say, "Welcome to the hood, daughter"? Ask your mom if she remembers life being that way too. I would really be interested in knowing about her hippy experience. For the most part, I was in Santa Monica, CA as a child hippy, and my memories of childhood are indeed memorable and wonderful.

Nono

Dawn, I read all of what has been said by you and others on this subject and I thought it was very interesting. As I considered the points that were stated in these correspondences I found some of the responses to be incredulous concerning those who premeditated the attacks on 911. Where people lay the blame for these horrendous acts is also questionable. But just so everyone is clear on this here is the definition of 'Al-Qaeda . The definition of 'Al-Qaeda is an Islamist group founded sometime between August 1988 and late 1989/early 1990. It operates as a network comprising both a multinational, stateless arm and a fundamentalist Sunni movement calling for global jihad. Al-Qaeda has attacked civilian and military targets in various countries, the most notable being the September 11 attacks on New York City and Washington, D.C. in 2001. The US government responded by launching the War on Terrorism. Characteristic techniques include suicide attacks and simultaneous bombings of different targets. Activities ascribed to it may involve members of the movement, who have taken a pledge of loyalty to Osama bin Laden, or the much more numerous "al-Qaeda-linked" individuals who have undergone training in one of its camps in Afghanistan or Sudan, but not taken any pledge. Al-Qaeda ideologues envision a complete break from the foreign influences in Muslim countries, and the creation of a new Islamic government. Reported beliefs include that a Christian-Jewish alliance is conspiring to destroy Islam which is largely embodied in the U.S.-Israel alliance, and that the killing of bystanders and civilians is religiously justified in jihad. This is the kind of thing that gives credence to imperialism! When one segregated group like Al-Qaeda decides to convince a larger group of all Muslims of their ideology. From the smaller groups standpoint we (Americanize Christians) are all guilty. Statements from people who tend to profile and generalize groups of people are usually from extremist mentalities and should be viewed as suspicious. So when I hear America being called "THE GREAT SATAN" I immediately see red flags going up. Mike

Mike,

the issue of AlQueda being a MUSLIM terrorist organization is at hand. Osama bin Laden is not a moderate, rational man. He is a crazed fundamentalist psychopath. He does not represent rational, God loving Muslims. I'm trying to draw out that rationality and faith by having open conversations that people who just cruise around reading stuff can read and hopefully think about.Perhaps it will help shift opinion but to really do that, we must retake control of the media, which I am also working on at a state level with lawsuits and regulation challenges.

there is something very dark and very large lurking behind the 9-11 attacks and the way to find out what that thing is, is to follow the money.

I found that the religion of these terrorists is being tied to this situation by very scary and secular, financial strings. I have done a lot of research into WHO paid for this and WHY.

Down that rabbit hole lies connections not to Muslims but to italian left wing terrorists and organizations that began in the 60's and 70's.
this time frame ties BACK to the era when those who are in charge of the American now, were forming their political and ethically principles during their college/university years. I refer not to the peace and love movement but the radical violence exhibited by militant activists both in the states and abroad.
these militant thinkers are very close to the current leader of the free world.

so far, I have concluded (using research) that the BushW administration was extremely corrupt. they were in the pockets of big money, corporate greed, drug money laundering, basically the stuff Mike Ruppert talked about in Rubicon...

they initiated the war on terror to control the oil in the mideast, destroy the sovereign gov'ts there, and nation build a 'democratic freedom' NOT based on a federalist principle. democracy without federalism is one of the weakest forms of government known to exist. THIS is what is being implemented in Iraq now. Afghanistan is next, if the military stays on this tack.

the current administration is also extremely corrupt but they are in the pockets of communist social structure (maoist and marxists). So far they have kept their focus on changing the structure of American gov't and draining the wealth and freedoms of the American middle class, the last bastion of true freedom in the world at this time.

I'm not certain what they want in the mideast but I have a feeling it has something to do with the innate uncontrollability of gov't based on religion, which is very common in the region.
as you know, communism and marxism is very anti religion, anti God (the real God, not the fake one they talk about). I feel our Muslim brothers are about to face a war in the region designed to destroy their religion. I think Christians are being provoked into hating Muslims and Muslims are being provoked into hating Christians. This will result in a war of righteousness on both sides, very dangerous stuff.(think Crusades, I believe, if you ask the Muslims here about the crusades they will list untold horrors, multiply that by a factor of modern weaponry and you get...)

I think it is VITAL that the conservatives retake the federal gov't in America while being certain that the conservatives they replace the liberals with are NOT corrupted by big money as was the Bush admin. (watch Karl Rove very carefully, he's up to something. I don't trust him. Neither should the tea party, the coffee party nor 9-12 org)
conservatives MUST divorce themselves of the hate rhetoric coming out of the christian right IMMEDIATELY and WITH URGENCY. This is a big reason I refuse to claim a religion. I wish not to be separated from anyone by a title.

we MUST get our military out of the region before one of these corrupt, and dare I say evil,(big money or communism) groups uses the destructive power our armed forces represent to begin the third world war.

if we can do that then may be we can stop this slide toward the end. If we fail, well, you know what the bible says.

Dawn

Mike said: From the smaller groups standpoint we (Americanize Christians) are all guilty. Statements from people who tend to profile and generalize groups of people are usually from extremist mentalities and should be viewed as suspicious. So when I hear America being called "THE GREAT SATAN" I immediately see red flags going up.

Nono's response: If the shoe fits...

Regarding Al-Qaeda and bin Laden having anything to do with Islam, I think it would behove you to study the Qur'an so that you can stop speaking from your rectum. It would be appreciated because your ignorant association of those two to Islam really stinks.

Nono,

I missed your post while responding to Mike and I didn't realize you were actually talking about the 'Hood as a neighborhood, I thought it was a metaphor talking about the commonality of being raised by hippies. In this new light, I have to qualify what I said because I am a white woman and grew up in white neighborhoods. As a child I had very little contat with black people or culture something I remedied in my adult life. My father was also a gangster (Hell's Angels, Lynn Mass) and extremely racist. I learned my respect and open mindedness from my mother but, like you, I also knew the ways of violence and hate.

my father is dead now. My mother is alive but getting old. I am 43, neither old nor young. :)

the policies of Marxism and communism being put forth by the current admin in WashDC trouble me. I am not a fan of the president. In fact, I am opposed to his policies even though, as a poor person, I would see benefit under them in the short term. I realize this is not the place to argue politics and I won't but I wanted to be clear with you about where I stand.

I do not see this admin as being in any way aligned with the great concepts and truths of MLK and I agree that MLK would have been a great president, perhaps one of the greatest to ever live and he would have healed the rift between blacks and whites or at least begun us down the long path in that direction.

although I participate in demonstrations against this admin, I am also disturbed by the conservative christian right and their hate rhetoric toward Muslims, blacks and the president. I have few friends in the movement and see myself as a libertarian not a conservative. I want the rule of law and free market capitalism to be the way I live.

Dawn

Hi Dawn:

Dawn said: I missed your post while responding to Mike and I didn't realize you were actually talking about the 'Hood as a neighborhood, I thought it was a metaphor talking about the commonality of being raised by hippies.
Response: Actually, that IS what I was referring to. I lived among hippies and flower children. Nevertheless, the term "Hood" is actually me being facetious in that when I was growing up, "The Hood" was what Vatos and Crips and Bloods used to refer to their own neighborhoods. We referred to our neighborhood simply as our community.

Dawn said: As a child I had very little contat with black people or culture something I remedied in my adult life. My father was also a gangster (Hell's Angels, Lynn Mass) and extremely racist. I learned my respect and open mindedness from my mother but, like you, I also knew the ways of violence and hate.
Response: I also seldom had contact with blacks because of segregation and the racist period of time I lived in until junior high when segregation became outlaws and integration was mandated. Although I am not white (well, just half), as a Pacific Islander to and through, I was still received well by the Hell's Angels down the street from us where I often hung out with the Palmer Family, the famous golfer. Because of my association with gangs, I fit in like Chachi on "Happy Days." In fact, I was very much like Chachi, in that I hid behind my "kewl"ness and girls flocked to my insecurities that appeared to be "kewl" to the guys who hung out with me. Meanwhile, I was the king of geeks, and someone not to mess with. Those who know me now would never imagine what kind of person I was back then.

Dawn said: the policies of Marxism and communism being put forth by the current admin in WashDC trouble me. I am not a fan of the president. In fact, I am opposed to his policies even though, as a poor person, I would see benefit under them in the short term. I realize this is not the place to argue politics and I won't but I wanted to be clear with you about where I stand.

I do not see this admin as being in any way aligned with the great concepts and truths of MLK and I agree that MLK would have been a great president, perhaps one of the greatest to ever live and he would have healed the rift between blacks and whites or at least begun us down the long path in that direction.

Response: One thing I like a person like you is the fact that we can disagree and maintain our perspectives without being at each others' throats. lol. I am not opposed to Marxism, communism, or socialism because I believe that they have their place and work better in some instances than in a democracy, capitolistic society, or a representative republic like we have in the USA. The fact that you do not agree with the Obama Administration does not affect me adversely at all, but I will say that I think the record reflects the fact that Obama has accomplished more in his first year in office than any prior President of the United States has done in a complete term.

Granted, we both agree that MLK would have been a great President had he not been assassinated, but I see that we respectfully disagree in that I believe that Obama is the greatest President the USA has ever had and that he is doing a fantastic job, in fact a miraculous job considering what he inherited from President Bush and his cronies.

When it comes to whom President Obama represents, I believe that he is healing the racial and partisan barriers in the USA better than any prior President has, ever could, or ever tried. The problem is that America is still run by predominantly white, male dominated, Protestants, which is why their insecurities have created the Ku Klux Klan who are in other ways still active. Because of the insecurities of these Christian Americans, Christian cults are turning into militant groups in Michigan and Idaho along with other dots on the map of the USA and placing police and civilians at risk all the time. The problem is that the Christian leaning media won't cover these Christian Terrorist activities to avoid being persecuted for Jesus' sake, but it's okay to publish falsehoods about Muslims or take Islam out of context.

President Barack Obama has set the example that, against all odds that exist in the United States, being non-white is NOT a barrier to attaining the highest position in the United States. He has shown the world that you don't have to be a bully to pursue international world peace. His example has proven that being black DOES NOT mean you are too inferior to reach out to those who are struggling and to pull them up out of the mire of politics and social oppression. President Obama has faced the challenges before him, admitted where admission was due, and took on responsibility where due diligence belonged to him. This Health Care Reform legislation was historic and a great credit to his administration.

What's interesting is how we differ so much, but we are both extremely libertarian. However, I believe in the rule of law and capitolism in the truest sense, but I support socialistic and communistic policies as well where they work best for our country. Not every aspect of socialism and communism is bad, and the United States is not a true democracy. The United States is actually a Representative Republic, contrary to what most Americans realize.

Nono

Nono, You need to take an asprin! You are not reading the posts correctly! I did not make a corrolation between Muslim and Al-qaeda as you think. I said , That the smaller group ,al-qaeda is trying to convince the larger group of Muslims of their idealogy.
Mike

Mike said: Nono, You need to take an asprin! You are not reading the posts correctly! I did not make a corrolation between Muslim and Al-qaeda as you think. I said , That the smaller group ,al-qaeda is trying to convince the larger group of Muslims of their idealogy.

As I stated: Regarding Al-Qaeda and bin Laden having anything to do with Islam, I think it would behove you to study the Qur'an so that you can stop speaking from your rectum. It would be appreciated because your ignorant association of those two to Islam really stinks.

The idea of associating people who act contrary to the definition of the word Musliim only proves that you need to read the Qur'an.

I DO know exactly what kind of government our forefathers left us and I am a firm believer in the laws and core values of the USA BECAUSE they are also God's laws and values. A natural democracy is one of the weakest forms of gov't known to exist and a federalist republic is one of the strongest. This country ain't falling any time soon, you'll see.

You are thinking incorrectly my friend. There's no such thing as free market capitAlism in a communist state. It don't work that way.

I think you need to check that libertarian score of yours...I'd say you are a bit further left than you think you are.

the only real difference between a libertarian and a conservative is what they think should be done about gay marriage and abortion and other 'moral' issues.

a conservative would make a moral ruling on both and a libeterian would make an ethical/legal ruling on both.

I am a libertarian, dead on, balls up. I am also a gun carrying, freedom loving, flag waving, protest marching, supporter of the Constitution as is, American.

I know militia members. I bake cookies for them. I have news, most of them aren't even christian and most of them are libertarians.
Give them Liberty or give them death!
In my experience, christian conservatives (this is generalized, please don't get offended anyone)are far more likely to be the folks that stay at home watching tv and and whining about the way the world is falling apart than the ones out in the streets doing something about it. chrisitan conservatives are far more likely to judge the value of a human being than accept them as one.

you bought the lie now you have to live with it
TAKE THE RED PILL!
reality is really scary but you can only understand when you live in it.

if the communists succeed in transforming this country away from a federalist republic, the money they are after will vanish because America's wealth doesn't come from evil people, it comes from WE THE PEOPLE. Kill that, and you kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

Dawn

As a libertarian in the ambience of American politics, I don't see libertarianism as necessarily being militia-oriented, although due to the libertarian concept which advocates the maximization of individual liberty and the minimization or even abolition of the state, I still believe that each type of government works in its appropriate settings. Outside specific parameters, they not only don't work, but they can't work. In the United States, I believe Libertarianism works well if we can get people to understand our political ambience and remove the barriers that do in fact make Americans less free than most people across the globe, with the exception of Third World Countries.

As a libertarian in the ambience of American politics, I don't see how communism or absolute socialism is possible. There are aspects of these and other forms of government, even certain types of dicttatorships, that can be incorporated into a Representative Republic like we have. Look at the consequences of the Bush Regime that the Obama Administration inherited. You don't need a militia to represent you incumbents like the Bush Administration seemed to have done with Muslims as pertained to his War on Terror. I don't think Americans understand what America actually is. The way you present yourself, no offense, but I kind of wonder if you understand the politics of our country. If my assumption is wrong, then I apologize.

As a libertarian in the ambience of American politics, I do not believe that violence is necessarily the answer to libertarian platforms unless our country finds itself on the defense with the threat of physical harm. Also as for political spectrums go, I don't believe in a right or a left because everything is a full swing circle. Right or left depends on where on the circle one judging right or left is. Nevertheless, while I advocate the maximization of individual liberty and the minimization or even abolition of the state, there is a time and a place for everything. For example, freedom of religion, in my libertarian opinion, extends to polygamy and same-sex marriage as well. Individual liberty, in my libertarian opinion, also extends to public social nudity, cross dressing, hijabs, and paper bags over the head. Individual liberty, in my libertarian opinion, extends to the right to bear arms to protect myself from our government when they are violating my rights and from trespassers who have no business being on my property. Government, in my libertarian opinion, is to be communal to an extent, but extremely limited on a state and federal basis. Homelessness, in my libertarian opinion, involves being allowed to set up camp in areas that are public property unless those opposed to such encampments are willing to pay for better accommodations for the homeless. Libertarianism to me is being allowed to have a green mohawk without social intervention. Libertarianism extends to parents being allowed to raise their children without the government sleeping in our bedrooms or carrying our leashes. As a libertarian, I wholeheartedly advocate the maximization of individual liberty and the minimization or even abolition of the state unless and until the voice of the people vote otherwise.

Nono

Okay, you get it, most of it.

You want to know what a real American looks like, go out side and watch people walking around or driving past. Those are Americans.

While I don't advocate violence and don't think it will solve anything, especially not if it is started by my militia friends, (and they agree. I also see that forces on both sides are stirring it up with big sticks. Being prepared is no sin and I am, but mostly in a defensive capacity though, I will not hesitate to give my life for the freedom of my children. I hope it never comes to that.

I don't know that we are actually arguing but I would like to make the point that I really think our president is a lamb being led to slaughter (metaphorically speaking)

I think many on the left have bought the big lie of China. Even as we speak, our president is thinking about asking China to stop holding back the value of its currency in an effort to stimulate jobs here in this country. If China made goods become more expensive then American made stuff can compete. Jobs that fled overseas will come back and those are the jobs we need, solid manufacturing base jobs, not service industries or make work summer stuff.

He has the right idea on this but I think he is about to find out that, yes, this country was sold down the road by previous admins (not just Bush but clear back to FDR and Wilson, God rest their souls)
Regan defeated the USSR communists but CHina was watching carefully. We have been defeated from within.
China is NOT going to raise the value of its currency, mark my words. Its going to send this basically nice man, who thought he understood the problem and was working to defeat the corruption of big money that the Bush admin was in with, packing.

and then its going to get ugly...really bug faced, put a bag over her head because she's too gruesome to walk backwards UGLY.

I want us all to unite as Americans, as Patriots...let's forget our reilgions and our grievances with right or left or what ever...I don't care what my fellow Americans believe in or don't belive in...BUT WE HAVE TO BELIEVE IN EACH OTHER!WE HAVE TO VOTE OUT COMMUNISM!

this includes ANYONE who says they think Mao is good!

time grows short my friends.

Dawn