I have embarked on a new endeavor and have been told by an attorney, a constitutional expert, that what I am attempting has never been done by a private citizen before. I am petitioning our representatives to call a "People's Constitutional Convention, for the singular purpose to modernize the "Constitution" making it congruent with our time in history. Since Congress represents, "we" the people. "Represent" is the key word here. Therefore the people hold the power, not the representatives of the people. I'm not talking about a normal constitutional process. Is there anything in the Constitution that forbids a direct petition to our representatives, compelling them to convene? If "we" citizens directly petition our representatives ( one petition) signed by a majority of citizens, what would be their responsibility?

Your lawyer is an idiot.
what you are talking about is natural democracy and that doesn't work on a large scale
The Greeks had natural democracy, a bunch of city states perpetually bickering over ridiculous things while things like defense went un-noticed. They were finally conquered and destroyed.
The Roman republic worked to a degree but it was brought down because one man could control the army and take control away from the senate..in other words...corruption.

We fixed that by electing leaders instead of allowing rule to be passed by favor or lineage.Now we are challenged by the attempted control of wealth and the progress to socialize the government corrupting the system. The way to fix that is through voting and resistance.

You want to build a better mousetrap? then study the designs that failed first.
our system may not be perfect, but it's the best that's ever existed...so far.

Dawn

HereHere!!! well put...do not ever suggest to tamper with the constitution because if that is allowed to happen you may as well do away with it and crown Obama King! The constitution is what we must embrace and defend as it is...attempting to alter it is tyranny!

:::bowing while standing on a giant stack of history books:::

if I fall while doing this and you laugh...

Dawn

I thought your proposal was interesting, and wanted to respond.

It's true that we as citizens are free to petition our representatives in Congress; however, they are not obliged to act on the basis of such a petition. They may choose to, but we cannot compel them to do anything in particular. The primary influence we have is voting them in or out of office.

In Article V of the Constitution, which explains the amendment process, there are two ways to amend the Constitution. One method involves the amendment being voted on by state legislatures; the other involves the amendment being voted on by conventions in each state that are convened just for that purpose.

It's interesting to think about such conventions being convened in each state to propose amending the Constitution. To be honest, I think this would be hard to organize, but it is an option in the Constitution.

The US Constitution is old, and archaic in many ways. Most democratic countries have parliamentary governments that work very differently from ours. Americans often seem to forget that we are far from the only democratic country in world; I'm not sure why that is.

If you are interested in critiques of the US Constitution, I would suggest reading "How Democratic is the American Constitution?" by Robert Dahl (arguably the premier living scholar of democracy) and "The Frozen Republic" by Daniel Lazare.

Move back to where ever you learned that crap Geordi. Your brain isn't working correctly and I recommend rest and lots of library books about American history, world history and the collapse of communism.

Why is it that those who want socialism refuse to recognize that IT DOESN'T WORK? No matter how many times people point out good examples of failed socialism, the "new Socialists" say, that's because the right people haven't tried it yet.
You all think that it will work here because America has traditionally generated so much independent wealth but you fail to see that WITHOUT FREEDOM NO WEALTH WILL BE GENERATED FOR YOU TO PASS OUT WILLY NILLY.

you bombastic, hubris-tic, dead headed idiots will never learn and you're taking MY FREEDOM down the drain with you. GO AWAY with your sickness!

FREEDOM IS EVERYTHING
Dawn

What I am talking about is a National petition recommending amendments to the Constitution, usint the power that any American has to petition State government, the Congress, and the Judiciary all the way to the Supreme Court. It is a method that has never been tried before because the tecnology was not available it is now. Of course Congress is not compelled to act, but if the AMA with less than million members can effectivly kill legislation, how many signatories will it take on a National petition to make them act?

What I am talking about is a National petition recommending amendments to the Constitution, using the power that any American has to petition State government, the Congress, and the Judiciary all the way to the Supreme Court. It is a method that has never been tried before because the technology was not available it is now.

Of course Congress would not be "compelled" to act, but if the AMA with less than million members can effectively kill legislation, how many signatories will it take on a National petition to make them act? Moreover, we do not need registered voters, only citizens over the age of eighteen years. We don't have a Tuesday in November deadline, voter registration, and gerrymandering to worry about, just valid signatures. We can even give them fingerprints and photo ID if necessary.

This method does not change the Constitution in any way, nor is it prohibited by the Constitution. It is just a way to avoid the costly, cumbersome and almost impossible procedure to make amendments that worked well with thirteen states within walking distance of each other then, but is dysfunctional now. Who would disagree that many national issues, beneficial to every American, could be resolved with Constitutional amendments?

So, you seem to think you are free? The only freedoms you truly own are your thoughts, and your actions long as they are not prohibited by the government. Do you realize even killing yourself is illegal. How idiotic is that? I wonder what the penalty for suicide is. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

I appreciate Robert Dahl, and Daniel Lazar. However, am finished reading. I am doing something constructive. I think you may have misunderstood my project. It in no way tampers with the requirements of Article 5, nor is it prohibited by the Constitution. It is merely using powers that are held by the people. How many valid signatories will it take, and what will the Congress accept? We have the technology to give them whatever Identification and validation they may require using the same standards as required for a passport if necessary. Then it is a matter of numbers. Congress would still need to get ratification by the States. Can we get as many signatories as the AFL-CIO, or the AMA has members. I say yes we can, thank you Obama.

Damn!!!

I'm a little confused about your comment, since I didn't mention socialism in my post. I'm sorry if I was unclear.

I did mention other democratic countries, of which there are many. The US is far from the only democratic country in the world, after all. I think it can be interesting comparing the US political system to other democratic governments.

I thought we were discussing the US Constitution. Did you want to start a different discussion?

The main reason that I mentioned Article V is that using the amendment process could result in binding changes. In other words, members of Congress would have to accept the results, if the process in the Constitution were followed.

The First Amendment gives us the freedom "to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." The citizenry can petition any way it wants to, but this doesn't mean that Congress is obliged to act in response. Congress simply can't infringe on the right to petition.

What sorts of changes to the Constitution are you interested in making?

Okay....okay...I'm so confused here...

this isn't making any sense, so let me see if I can focus the discussion

we are talking about modernizing the Constitution....all right

toward what end? why do you want to modernize it? What are your goals?
what would be included in this modern version that is not included now either in the original document or as an amendment?

I think I jumped in before looking....I reacted before confirmation....my bad

Dawn

ps...I'm free because God made me free as He made all of us free. the more correct statement is

LIBERTY IS EVERYTHING!

We can not 'modernize' the constitution we can either amend it or totally do away with it...

Amend it how and for what reasoning?

Do away with it and replace it with what?

When the final draft of the constitution was completed and ratified it turned out to be the most historical document in the history of the world. The wisdom of the men that drafted this blueprint for the greatest Republic ever were ingenious! It was cleverly worded to direct this nation through out time and all imaginable scenarios. These men were the most brilliant of the time and their wisdom resounds firmly in the present day...standing out flawlessly against the most brilliant minds of our time!

The perfect simplicity of the constitution was designed to command that it must be followed exactly as it is by those that swore the solemn oath to defend it. Many would jump at the chance to subvert it or alter it but for the sole purpose of defiling it for reasons other than for what it stands!

In our modern time the constitution fits printed on about sixteen pages...four very large pages at its conception...and it was created to give the basic fundamental laws that the newly founded federal government must adhere to...plain and simple!

The founders did this on purpose because they new that men would come along in later times and try and complicate matters. Many of the same founders are documented on hundreds of occasions warning of those that would try and subvert the guide stones to this federal government and allow tyranny to take place of the Republic...we were warned.

The powers not given to the federal government are reserved to the States...if you compare the US Constitution to those of the States Constitutions you will see a striking difference to the composition of the laws in place to keep the federal government in place and out of the lives of the citizens. In contrast, for example, the US Constitution is sixteen pages in length on modern print format compared to the Texas Constitution which is over three hundred and fifty pages long...

The federal government was not created to regulate the people or the States it was created to preserve the American boarders with an army that would be comprised of the people from the states that did join the Union...even then the States remain sovereign in their own right. The federal government was also designed to protect the sovereignty of the States and then the sovereignty of the Union!The federal government must capitulate to the States and to the people that power not the other way around.

The problem is not the constitution it is in fact what the founding fathers warned us of...corruption of the federal government and the erosion of the rights and freedoms of the States that the federal government is supposed to be protecting...

Restore the Republic and the power of the constitution as is and this country will inexplicably set her self right...run the criminal element out of the nations capital and prosperity and freedoms will swing back as a pendulum!

Peace to the Republic!

DAMN!


hehehee

:::waving hands::: I don't wanna modernize it! it's them, I swear!

Dawn

Oh crap! I did mean to post that for Geordie...I should be flogged!!!

"Don't interfere with anything in the constitution, that must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties..."
Abraham Lincoln.

President George W Bush commented...
"...the constitution is just a goddamn piece of paper..."

President Obama quoted prior to his election...
"...the constitution is a fundamentally flawed document...with the same blind spots now as then..."


What does this teach us?

"Experience has shown that even under the best forms of government, those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny..."

"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people...they are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."
Thomas Jefferson.

"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpation's..."
James Madison.

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism..."
George Washington.

There are those hard at work in our present time that will stop at nothing to pervert the fundamental elements of the constitution to alter our Republic into a socialist state where the elite rule and everyone else will again be mired in despotism of the worst kind ever experienced by any people in all history...you choose!

"force is a vital principle and immediate parent of despotism..."
Thomas Jefferson.

LET THE FLOGGING COMMENCE!

try not to bleed on the berber...okay?

::::chuckling:::

Dawn

if you want to see how BLAZINGLY BRILLIANT I am, check out my response in the civil war thread above this one....now tell me...ain't I SUMTHIN!

::::SNORT:::

I have repeatedly told you to refrain from drinking the Glenlivet prior to noon..HA! Berber? please my dear, that would be Walnut/Jatoba/Maple parquet...really?:::a contemptuous and condescending sneer gradually deepens into a loathsome glare:::You have bloodied the eighteenth century Persian!!

James...

I will cower appropriately as long as you keep the glass full....

:::looking at hardwood floor::::is that what was under all that wall to wall? who knew...hmmm...think we should tear up the tile in the bath too?

NO ICE, I may bloody eighteenth century persians but, watering down good scotch is a SIN
It's the 11th commandment, the one God didn't write because He was busy testing the concept

hehehehe
Dawn

YOU"RE AN IDIOT.

and your knowledge of ancient history SUCKS.

Agreed.