LL Cool J vs. Kool Moe Dee feud
Encyclopedia
The feud between LL Cool J
and Kool Moe Dee
was a renowned long-standing hip-hop rivalry
between the two well known New York City
rappers
.
was a member of one of the earliest hip hop crews, the Treacherous Three
, and claimed that LL Cool J
stole his style, starting a long-running feud between them. From different interviews and magazines at the time, Kool Moe Dee felt that LL was actually believing his own hype based on the popularity and success of the Bigger and Deffer
album.
The cover of Kool Moe Dee's 1987 album How Ya Like Me Now
featured a red Kangol
hat (LL Cool J's trademark) being crushed under the wheel of a Jeep
.
In the title track, while not mentioning LL by name, refers to another MC, who had copied his style and apparently questioned his ability to sell records.
He also mentions along the way that he's "talking about battles, and never had a battle yet". Interestingly, both this as well as copying someone's beat were the same criticisms MC Shan
had leveled at him in his earlier record "Beat Biter". In fact, considering the numerous rap acts taking shots at LL, "He became the target of choice for striving rappers, with no posse of his own to watch his back".
" single from the Less Than Zero
soundtrack where LL, though not mentioning Moe Dee by name, derides a "washed up rapper" and "old school
sucker punk" and then makes a couple of direct jabs at the title of the first record, such as at the climax of the rap, "How ya like me now? I'm gettin' busier'; I'm double platinum, watching you get dizzier...". "Jingling Baby
", also contained shots at Moe Dee, without any direct references.
Kool Moe Dee fired back with an even more aggressive response entitled "Let's Go"; where he now mentions LL, by making an alliteration
of pejorative
s beginning with the letter "L", ("lower level, last, least, etc."):
The sequence ended with the following:
LL responded on the "Mama Said Knock You Out" album with "To Da Break of Dawn
"; where he makes fun of "Star Trek
shades" (referring to Kool Moe Dee's characteristic eyeglasses), and also attacks both MC Hammer
and Ice T
for dissing him in records.
The album's title track "Mama Said Knock You Out
", also took shots at him.
Kool Moe Dee fired back on Funke, Funke Wisdom
with "Death Blow", where he answers all three singles: (e.g. "If Mama said knock me out; come do it!") He would conclude with another alliteration of negative "L" words (with a different rhythm).
contained the track, "(NFA) No Frontin Allowed" which takes various shots at Kool Moe Dee. While LL is widely known for his commercial success, it was Kool Moe Dee who was seen as having the more hard-hitting lyrics. LL would later emphasize his success on "I Shot Ya Remix"; "..Crushed Moe Dee, Hammer and Ice-T's girl". Regarding LL's "double platinum" status, Murray Forman says, "As this suggests, microphone skills are crucial, but sales were the final determinant of one's supremacy. While Kool Moe Dee was unquestionably a bankable and bona fide rap star, LL Cool J's sales far outdistanced him, a reflection of...the commercial terrains of the evolving rap music market."
Kool Moe Dee, who had been calling LL to a live battle which he never engaged in, had commented
He also continued that part of his issue with LL (as well as Run) were that ....he felt like "nothing that came before them mattered, and that his money could validate that."
LL Cool J
James Todd Smith , better known as LL Cool J , is an American rapper, entrepreneur, and actor...
and Kool Moe Dee
Kool Moe Dee
Mohandas Dewese , better known as Kool Moe Dee, is an American Hip Hop MC prominent in the late 1970s through the early 1990s. He was born in Manhattan, New York...
was a renowned long-standing hip-hop rivalry
Hip-hop rivalry
"Hip hop rivalries" have existed since the dawn of hip hop music, which originated in the 1970s in New York City, United States. Originally, it came to block parties, where DJs would play records and isolate the percussion breaks for the dancing masses. Soon, MCs began speaking over the beats,...
between the two well known New York City
New York City
New York is the most populous city in the United States and the center of the New York Metropolitan Area, one of the most populous metropolitan areas in the world. New York exerts a significant impact upon global commerce, finance, media, art, fashion, research, technology, education, and...
rappers
Rapping
Rapping refers to "spoken or chanted rhyming lyrics". The art form can be broken down into different components, as in the book How to Rap where it is separated into “content”, “flow” , and “delivery”...
.
Background
Kool Moe DeeKool Moe Dee
Mohandas Dewese , better known as Kool Moe Dee, is an American Hip Hop MC prominent in the late 1970s through the early 1990s. He was born in Manhattan, New York...
was a member of one of the earliest hip hop crews, the Treacherous Three
Treacherous Three
The Treacherous Three was a pioneering hip hop group that was formed in 1978 and consisted of DJ Easy Lee, Kool Moe Dee, L.A. Sunshine, Special K and Spoonie Gee , with occasional contributions from DJ Dano B, DJ Reggie Reg and DJ Crazy Eddie...
, and claimed that LL Cool J
LL Cool J
James Todd Smith , better known as LL Cool J , is an American rapper, entrepreneur, and actor...
stole his style, starting a long-running feud between them. From different interviews and magazines at the time, Kool Moe Dee felt that LL was actually believing his own hype based on the popularity and success of the Bigger and Deffer
Bigger and Deffer
Bigger And Deffer , is the second studio album by rapper LL Cool J and is remembered most for containing the first commercially successful "rap ballad", "I Need Love". It also contains the single "Go Cut Creator Go", which paid homage to his DJ, and the breakthrough single in the U.K. "I'm Bad"...
album.
The conflict begins
The conflict began with Kool Moe Dee responding to LL for some apparent offenses that had occurred in the past.The cover of Kool Moe Dee's 1987 album How Ya Like Me Now
How Ya Like Me Now
How Ya Like Me Now is the second album by emcee Kool Moe Dee.Kool Moe Dee was an original member of The Treacherous Three. He had a long running feud with LL Cool J releasing various "diss tracks" at his adversary...
featured a red Kangol
Kangol
Kangol is a British clothing company famous for its headwear.Founded in Cleator, Cumbria, England in 1938 by Jaques Spreiregen, Kangol produced hats for workers, golfers, and especially soldiers...
hat (LL Cool J's trademark) being crushed under the wheel of a Jeep
Jeep
Jeep is an automobile marque of Chrysler . The first Willys Jeeps were produced in 1941 with the first civilian models in 1945, making it the oldest off-road vehicle and sport utility vehicle brand. It inspired a number of other light utility vehicles, such as the Land Rover which is the second...
.
In the title track, while not mentioning LL by name, refers to another MC, who had copied his style and apparently questioned his ability to sell records.
He also mentions along the way that he's "talking about battles, and never had a battle yet". Interestingly, both this as well as copying someone's beat were the same criticisms MC Shan
MC Shan
MC Shan is an American rapper. He is perhaps best known for collaborating with Snow in "Informer", an international number one hit single.-Biography:...
had leveled at him in his earlier record "Beat Biter". In fact, considering the numerous rap acts taking shots at LL, "He became the target of choice for striving rappers, with no posse of his own to watch his back".
LL's response and escalation
LL responded with "Jack the Ripper" which was included as a B-side to the "Going Back to CaliGoing Back to Cali (LL Cool J song)
"Going Back to Cali" is single by LL Cool J from the Less Than Zero soundtrack and his third album Walking with a Panther. Produced by Rick Rubin and LL Cool J, the song was a success, peaking at #31 on the Billboard Hot 100 and #12 on the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs, and was eventually certified gold by...
" single from the Less Than Zero
Less Than Zero (film)
Less Than Zero is a 1987 American drama film loosely based on Bret Easton Ellis' novel of the same name. The film stars Andrew McCarthy as Clay, a college freshman returning home for Christmas to spend time with his ex-girlfriend Blair and his friend Julian , who is also a drug addict...
soundtrack where LL, though not mentioning Moe Dee by name, derides a "washed up rapper" and "old school
Old school hip hop
Old school hip hop describes the earliest commercially recorded hip hop music , and the music in the period preceding it from which it was directly descended . Old school hip hop is said to end around 1983 or 1984 with the emergence of Run–D.M.C., the first new school hip hop group...
sucker punk" and then makes a couple of direct jabs at the title of the first record, such as at the climax of the rap, "How ya like me now? I'm gettin' busier'; I'm double platinum, watching you get dizzier...". "Jingling Baby
Jingling Baby
Jingling Baby was the final single released from LL Cool J's third album, Walking with a Panther. It was released on January 8, 1990 for Def Jam Recordings and was produced by LL Cool J, The L.A. Posse and Marley Marl. Jingling Baby peaked at #32 on the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs...
", also contained shots at Moe Dee, without any direct references.
Kool Moe Dee fired back with an even more aggressive response entitled "Let's Go"; where he now mentions LL, by making an alliteration
Alliteration
In language, alliteration refers to the repetition of a particular sound in the first syllables of Three or more words or phrases. Alliteration has historically developed largely through poetry, in which it more narrowly refers to the repetition of a consonant in any syllables that, according to...
of pejorative
Pejorative
Pejoratives , including name slurs, are words or grammatical forms that connote negativity and express contempt or distaste. A term can be regarded as pejorative in some social groups but not in others, e.g., hacker is a term used for computer criminals as well as quick and clever computer experts...
s beginning with the letter "L", ("lower level, last, least, etc."):
- Tryna be me, now LL stands for
- Lower Level, Lack Luster
- Last Least, Limp Lover
- Lousy Lame, Latent Lethargic
- Lazy Lemon, Little Logic
- Lucky Leech, Liver Lipped
- Laborious Louse on a Loser's Lips
- Live in Limbo, Lyrical Lapse
- Low Life with the loud raps, boy
The sequence ended with the following:
- ...Now look what you done did
- just using your name I took those L’s,
- hung ‘em on your head and rocked your bellsRock the Bells (song)Rock the Bells is the third single from LL Cool J's debut album, Radio. It was released in 1985 for Def Jam Recordings, was written by LL Cool J and produced by Rick Rubin. It was the follow-up to I Can Give You More. Rock the Bells peaked at #17 on the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs. Despite the song's...
...
LL responded on the "Mama Said Knock You Out" album with "To Da Break of Dawn
To Da Break of Dawn
"To da Break of Dawn" is a single from both LL Cool J's fourth album, Mama Said Knock You Out, and the soundtrack to the Kid 'n Play movie House Party. It was released on June 17, 1990 by Motown Records and Def Jam Recordings and was produced by LL Cool J and Marley Marl...
"; where he makes fun of "Star Trek
Star Trek
Star Trek is an American science fiction entertainment franchise created by Gene Roddenberry. The core of Star Trek is its six television series: The Original Series, The Animated Series, The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager, and Enterprise...
shades" (referring to Kool Moe Dee's characteristic eyeglasses), and also attacks both MC Hammer
MC Hammer
Stanley Kirk Burrell , better known by his stage name MC Hammer , is an American rapper, entertainer, business entrepreneur, dancer and actor. He had his greatest commercial success and popularity from the late 1980s until the mid-1990s...
and Ice T
Ice T
Tracy Marrow , better known by his stage name Ice-T, is an American musician and actor.He was born in Newark, New Jersey and moved to the Crenshaw district of Los Angeles when he was in the 7th grade. After graduating from high school he served in the United States Army for four years...
for dissing him in records.
The album's title track "Mama Said Knock You Out
Mama Said Knock You Out (song)
"Mama Said Knock You Out" is a hit single by LL Cool J from his album of the same name. The song famously begins with the line "Don't call it a comeback/I've been here for years." Before "Mama Said Knock You Out" was released, many people felt that LL Cool J's career was waning; his grandmother,...
", also took shots at him.
Kool Moe Dee fired back on Funke, Funke Wisdom
Funke, Funke Wisdom
Funke, Funke Wisdom is the fourth album by emcee Kool Moe Dee. The single Rise N Shine was number 1 on Billboards Hot Rap Singles chart.-Track listing:#"Intro"#"Funke Wisdom"#"Here We Go Again"#"To the Beat, Y'all"#"How Cool Can One Blackman Be"...
with "Death Blow", where he answers all three singles: (e.g. "If Mama said knock me out; come do it!") He would conclude with another alliteration of negative "L" words (with a different rhythm).
Ending and aftermath
After this, the battle started to die down. LL's next album 14 Shots to the Dome14 Shots to the Dome
14 Shots To The Dome is the fifth studio album by rapper LL Cool J, released in 1993, and the first since his highly successful comeback album Mama Said Knock You Out. Unlike that release, which saw him have success on his own terms, 14 Shots sees LL adopting the sound of his West coast gangsta rap...
contained the track, "(NFA) No Frontin Allowed" which takes various shots at Kool Moe Dee. While LL is widely known for his commercial success, it was Kool Moe Dee who was seen as having the more hard-hitting lyrics. LL would later emphasize his success on "I Shot Ya Remix"; "..Crushed Moe Dee, Hammer and Ice-T's girl". Regarding LL's "double platinum" status, Murray Forman says, "As this suggests, microphone skills are crucial, but sales were the final determinant of one's supremacy. While Kool Moe Dee was unquestionably a bankable and bona fide rap star, LL Cool J's sales far outdistanced him, a reflection of...the commercial terrains of the evolving rap music market."
Kool Moe Dee, who had been calling LL to a live battle which he never engaged in, had commented
- "I always said that the reason LL can never win a battle is because he talks so much about himself, that he cant talk about anything else. He used his charisma, energy and vocabulary - which is basically a combination of my style, T La RockT La RockClarence "Terry" Ronnie Keaton , known by the stage name T La Rock, is an American old-school emcee best known for his collaboration with Def Jam Recordings co-founder Rick Rubin and the 1984 single "It's Yours." He disappeared from the hip hop scene after a traumatic brain injury in 1994, but as...
& RunJoseph SimmonsJoseph Ward Simmons , known by the stage name Rev. Run or DJ Run, is one of the founding members of the influential hip hop group Run–D.M.C., and a practicing minister, known as Reverend Run. Simmons was born in Hollis, Queens, New York. He is the younger brother of Daniel "Danny" Simmons, Jr...
but in battling its more. Like when I hit him with the Ls (lower level, lackluster etc) it wasn't just insulting, but it had poetic value to it".
He also continued that part of his issue with LL (as well as Run) were that ....he felt like "nothing that came before them mattered, and that his money could validate that."
List of relevant records
- Kool Moe Dee - "How Ya Like Me Now"
- LL Cool J - "Jack the Ripper"
- Kool Moe Dee - "Let's Go"
- LL Cool J - "Mama Said Knock You Out"
- LL Cool J - "To The Break of Dawn"
- Kool Moe Dee - "Death Blow"
Further reading
- Interview by Alan LightAlan Light (journalist)Alan Light is an American journalist who has been a rock critic for Rolling Stone and the editor-in-chief for both VIBE and Spin....
, Rolling StoneRolling StoneRolling Stone is a US-based magazine devoted to music, liberal politics, and popular culture that is published every two weeks. Rolling Stone was founded in San Francisco in 1967 by Jann Wenner and music critic Ralph J...
, July 11, 1991