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Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
It is widely believed bu skeptics that the "accuracy" of Nostradaums' predictions is due to their vagueness. His predictions were in the form of quatrains (4 line verses) that were sparse on details or specifics. This allows meaning to be in the eye of the beholder.
For example, the following quatrain is believed by followers of Nostradamus to have predicted the 1986 Challenger space shuttle
From the human flock nine will be sent away,
Separated from judgment and counsel:
Their fate will be sealed on departure
Kappa, Thita, Lambda the banished dead err (I.81).
It seems to fit the events, but anything that vague will inevitably describe many events from the fullness of history.
replied to: dbrunner
Replied to: It is widely believed bu skeptics that the "accuracy" of Nostradaums'...
Yes, his predictions are vague, and I would say deliberately so. Nostradamus was more fraud than prophet. If he knew the future, why didn't he just state concretely what was going to happen?
replied to: blockfrei
Replied to: Yes, his predictions are vague, and I would say deliberately so....
I don't think we can call him an outright fraud. Unlike most prophets, he wasn't necessarily knowingly promulgating falsehoods. He simply created predictions that were highly open to interpretation and let his readers fill in the blanks.
replied to: blockfrei
Replied to: Yes, his predictions are vague, and I would say deliberately so....
Maybe he couldn't state things concretely because he did not understand his visions himself. He could only document them.
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
I think he was legit. He was even recognized as a prophet in his own time. He was given credit for predicting how his king, Henri II of France, would die (he wrote of a pierced eye, the fatal injury that Henri received in a jousting match).
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
He was a fraud, pure and simple.
replied to: dbrunner
Replied to: It is widely believed bu skeptics that the "accuracy" of Nostradaums'...
A big part of the "success" of Nostradamus' predictions was mistranslated. Translators have a lot of latitude is how they translate these 16th century french texts.
replied to: edimonk
Replied to: A big part of the "success" of Nostradamus' predictions was mistranslated....
Here are translations of the same quatrain done by two different translators:
Cheetham's version:
Beasts wild with hunger will cross the rivers,
The greater part of the battle will be against Hitler.
He will cause great men to be dragged in a cage of iron,
When the son of Germany obeys no law.
Randi's version:
Beasts mad with hunger will swim across rivers,
Most of the army will be against the Lower Danube.
The great one shall be dragged in an iron cage
When the child brother will observe nothing.
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
We have the same problem with Nostradamus as we do with any other person claiming the power of prophecy. Namely, why didn't he use his advance knowledge of the future to make himself rich, or King, or whatever.
Just like how fortune tellers/psychics choose not to get the winning lottery numbers from the great beyond and buy a ticket.
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
He just got too many things right to be a faker.
replied to: JordPwn
Replied to: He just got too many things right to be a faker....
It's true that his predictions are vague, but some of them have specifics, like the one that mentions Hitler (it says Hister, but that's pretty close).
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
If his predictions were false, what was his motivation for predicting things that won't happen in his lifetime? How could he have benefited if people 100s of years after his death can find events that match his prophesies in modern times?
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
NO WAY!!!! It's all just a big scam!
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
[post deleted]
replied to: gwynraven
Replied to: NO WAY!!!! It's all just a big scam!
He probably sold a lot of books. That might have been a motivation.
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
Why is it so hard for people to believe that things we can't explain by science may be true? There are still huge gaps in our understanding of the universe.
replied to: ltred12
Replied to: Why is it so hard for people to believe that things...
Believing in prophecy means abandoning many scientifically proven things that we KNOW are true.
replied to: bravotren
Replied to: Believing in prophecy means abandoning many scientifically proven things that we...
How did he make his predictions? Did he have some kind of a technique?
replied to: JordPwn
Replied to: How did he make his predictions? Did he have some...
Biographer Peter Lemesurier concluded that Nostradamus "believed that history repeats itself" and used the technique of projecting past events onto the future in order to make realistic-sounding claims.
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
[post deleted]
replied to: tjared
Replied to: Biographer Peter Lemesurier concluded that Nostradamus "believed that history repeats itself"...
Nostradamus's reputation as a prophet was largely manufactured by modern day supporters who fit his words to events that have already occurred or are so imminent as to be inevitable. This is process known as "retroactive clairvoyance".
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
Some of his predictions are pretty convincing. Here's a great site with the top ones:
https://www.businessinsider.com/predictions-of-nostradamus-2011-12#charles-de-gaulle-6
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
He was also an astrologist. What does that tell you about his veracity as a knower to truth?
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
Some accounts of Nostradamus's life state that he was afraid of being persecuted for heresy by the Inquisition, but neither prophecy nor astrology fell in this bracket, and he would have been in danger only if he had practiced magic to support them. In 1538 he came into conflict with the Church in Agen after an Inquisitor visited the area looking for anti-Catholic views.[34] His brief imprisonment at Marignane in late 1561 was solely because he had violated a recent royal decree by publishing his 1562 almanac without the prior permission of a bishop.
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
Not a chance. It's all just BS crackpottery cooked up by people who want to believe there is order in the world.
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
This is probably one of his most famous predictions. It is believed to predict the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Near the gates and within two cities
There will be scourges the like of which was never seen,
Famine within plague, people put out by steel,
Crying to the great immortal God for relief.
replied to: rnlunatic
Replied to: If his predictions were false, what was his motivation for predicting...
If his predictions were legit, then what does that say about free will? If he could predict the future hundreds of years in advance, then it doesn't seem that people have much control over their destinies.
replied to: melintur
Replied to: If his predictions were legit, then what does that say about...
I wonder what Nostradamus's view on free will was?
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
Here's one purported to predict the assassination of JFK.
The great man will be struck down in the day by a thunderbolt,
An evil deed foretold by the bearer of a petition.
According to the prediction, another falls at night time.
Conflict at Reims, London and a pestilence in Tuscany.
What does the assassination of JFK have to do with Tuscany or London?
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
There were charlatans in the 1400s just like there are today. He was just one of them.
replied to: coffeym
Replied to: There were charlatans in the 1400s just like there are today....
Maybe not, though. I don't think people sold a lot of books back then. Most people were illiterate.
replied to: bravotren
Replied to: Believing in prophecy means abandoning many scientifically proven things that we...
[post deleted]
replied to: JordPwn
Replied to: How did he make his predictions? Did he have some...
From wikipedia:
Given this reliance on literary sources, it is unlikely that Nostradamus used any particular methods for entering a trance state, other than contemplation, meditation and incubation. His sole description of this process is contained in letter 41 of his collected Latin correspondence.[52] The popular legend that he attempted the ancient methods of flame gazing, water gazing or both simultaneously is based on a naive reading of his first two verses, which merely liken his efforts to those of the Delphic and Branchidic oracles.
The first of these is reproduced at the bottom of this article and the second can be seen by visiting the relevant facsimile site (see External Links). In his dedication to King Henri II, Nostradamus describes "emptying my soul, mind and heart of all care, worry and unease through mental calm and tranquility", but his frequent references to the "bronze tripod" of the Delphic rite are usually preceded by the words "as though" (compare, once again, External References to the original texts).
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
He was the real deal.
replied to: JordPwn
Replied to: He just got too many things right to be a faker....
What about the things he DIDN'T predict. Like the internet or global warming, or whatever.
replied to: Ruzhyo
Replied to: What about the things he DIDN'T predict. Like the internet...
Yeah and he didnt predict his own death and avoid it!
replied to: duckncover
Replied to: Yeah and he didnt predict his own death and avoid it!...
He died of gout. How do predict that? and even if you do, what do you do about it?
replied to: Ruzhyo
Replied to: What about the things he DIDN'T predict. Like the internet...
The things he didn't predict (i.e. internet, global warming)? That's just because someone hasn't found an interpretation that works (yet) for any of these things. Just give them time.
replied to: Wutog
Replied to: The things he didn't predict (i.e. internet, global warming)? That's...
Are you making a prediction? (Get it?)
replied to: dbrunner
Replied to: It is widely believed bu skeptics that the "accuracy" of Nostradaums'...
It's weird how people believe in this stuff. It's clearly just some guy writing poems that are deliberately vague.
replied to: jondabomb
Replied to: It's weird how people believe in this stuff. It's clearly...
People fell for it then, just like now.
replied to: splizxer
Replied to: Here are translations of the same quatrain done by two different...
Scholars have pointed out that almost all English translations of Nostradamus's quatrains are of extremely poor quality, seem to display little or no knowledge of 16th-century French, are tendentious, and are sometimes intentionally altered in order to make them fit whatever events the translator believed they were supposed to refer (or vice versa)
replied to: blockfrei
Replied to: Yes, his predictions are vague, and I would say deliberately so....
Quote from Nostradamus:
Although, my son, I have used the word prophet, I would not attribute to myself a title of such lofty sublimity.
...not something a person trying to deceive the world into believing in him would say.
replied to: JordPwn
Replied to: How did he make his predictions? Did he have some...
Nostradamus claimed to base his published predictions on judicial astrology—the astrological 'judgment', or assessment, of the 'quality' (and thus potential) of events such as births, weddings, coronations etc.—but was heavily criticized by professional astrologers of the day such as Laurens Videl for incompetence and for assuming that "comparative horoscopy" (the comparison of future planetary configurations with those accompanying known past events) could actually predict what would happen in the future.
replied to: Atherant
Replied to: Did Nostradamus really predict the future?
TOTALLY BOGUS
replied to: jondabomb
Replied to: Nostradamus claimed to base his published predictions on judicial astrology—the astrological...
Oh, it's all based on astrology. That makes me much more convinced it's not all crap.
replied to: dbrunner
Replied to: It is widely believed bu skeptics that the "accuracy" of Nostradaums'...
The vagueness of his predictions and lack of dating make it easy to quote them selectively after every major dramatic event and retrospectively claim them as "hits".
replied to: lasrus
Replied to: He was also an astrologist. What does that tell you...
He was also a diviner - another dubious belief system.
replied to: JordPwn
Replied to: How did he make his predictions? Did he have some...
It has been suggested that he may have used bibliomancy for this—randomly (choosing a book of history and taking his cue from whatever page it happened to fall open at)