A Proper Dialogue Between A Gentleman and a Husbandman
Encyclopedia
A proper dyaloge betwene a Gentilman and a Husbandman eche complaynynge to other their miserable calamite through the ambicion of the clergye was printed in two versions by "Hans Luft" (i.e., Johannes Hoochstraten) of Antwerp in 1529. This book appears in Robert Steele's list of books banned in Henry's reign; Steele refers to it as "Dialogue between gentleman & plowman." While clearly in the Piers Plowman Tradition
, Piers does not appear as a character. The first version has a 684 line acrostic poem opening and dialogue that was written in the sixteenth-century invention. Following this, there is an authentic, late fourteenth-century Lollard anti-clerical text, written ca. 1375-85. (It is included in Matthew, ed. The English Works of Wyclif.) To all this, the second version adds another prose tract probably from the late fifteenth century, which argues in favor of vernacular Bible translations.
The dialogue begins with the gentleman lamenting how his class has fallen low and is unable to help the poor, because long ago they were fooled into giving their lands and wealth to the church. The husbandman then argues for confiscating the possessions of a corrupt clergy which preys upon the poor. Belief in purgatory
and indulgences is singled out as the favorite swindle of the clergy, who are ultimately to blame for rising rents. The husbandman suggests taking the issue to parliament (the 1529 "Reformation Parliament"), but the gentleman demurs, alluding to Simon Fish
's A Supplicacyon for the Beggers and Thomas More
's rebuttal and defense of purgatory in The Supplycacyon of Soulys (1529). King John, Sir John Oldcastle
, and Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester
are listed as good men who came to bad ends for opposing the clergy. Then there is an allusion to the burning of William Tyndale
's New Testament
in 1526 and Henry V
's persecution of Lollards. To defend Lutherans and opposition to clerical possessions from charges of "newfangledness," the husbandman introduces what he takes to be a century-old treatise; i.e., a late-fourteenth-century Lollard text that supports disendowment of the clergy and barring them from secular offices. (The husbandman places it in the time of Richard II.)
Now I promyse the after my iudgement
I haue not hard of soche an olde fragment
Better groundyd on reason with Scripture.
Yf soche auncyent thynges myght come to lyght
That noble men hadde ones of theym a syght
The world yet wolde chaunge perauenture
For here agaynst the clergye cannot bercke
Sayenge as they do thys is a newe wercke
Of heretykes contryued lately.
And by thys treatyse it apperyth playne
That before oure dayes men did compleyne
Agaynst clerkes ambycyon so stately.
The "I" of the husbandman at this point leads into the "I" of the Lollard treatise which is attached at the end with little done to make a transition; it is revised to function as contemporary anti-Roman polemic.
Piers Plowman tradition
The Piers Plowman tradition is made up of about 14 different poetic and prose works from about the time of John Ball and the Peasants Revolt of 1381 through the reign of Elizabeth I and beyond. All the works feature one or more characters, typically Piers, from William Langland's poem Piers Plowman...
, Piers does not appear as a character. The first version has a 684 line acrostic poem opening and dialogue that was written in the sixteenth-century invention. Following this, there is an authentic, late fourteenth-century Lollard anti-clerical text, written ca. 1375-85. (It is included in Matthew, ed. The English Works of Wyclif.) To all this, the second version adds another prose tract probably from the late fifteenth century, which argues in favor of vernacular Bible translations.
The dialogue begins with the gentleman lamenting how his class has fallen low and is unable to help the poor, because long ago they were fooled into giving their lands and wealth to the church. The husbandman then argues for confiscating the possessions of a corrupt clergy which preys upon the poor. Belief in purgatory
Purgatory
Purgatory is the condition or process of purification or temporary punishment in which, it is believed, the souls of those who die in a state of grace are made ready for Heaven...
and indulgences is singled out as the favorite swindle of the clergy, who are ultimately to blame for rising rents. The husbandman suggests taking the issue to parliament (the 1529 "Reformation Parliament"), but the gentleman demurs, alluding to Simon Fish
Simon Fish
Simon Fish was a 16th century Protestant reformer and English propagandist. Fish is best known for helping to spread William Tyndale’s New Testament and for authoring the vehemently anti-clerical pamphlet Supplication for the Beggars which was condemned as heretical by the Roman Catholic Church...
's A Supplicacyon for the Beggers and Thomas More
Thomas More
Sir Thomas More , also known by Catholics as Saint Thomas More, was an English lawyer, social philosopher, author, statesman and noted Renaissance humanist. He was an important councillor to Henry VIII of England and, for three years toward the end of his life, Lord Chancellor...
's rebuttal and defense of purgatory in The Supplycacyon of Soulys (1529). King John, Sir John Oldcastle
Sir John Oldcastle
Sir John Oldcastle is an Elizabethan play about John Oldcastle, a controversial 14th-15th century rebel and Lollard who was seen by some of Shakespeare's contemporaries as a proto-Protestant martyr.-Publication:...
, and Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester
Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester
Humphrey of Lancaster, 1st Duke of Gloucester, 1st Earl of Pembroke, KG , also known as Humphrey Plantagenet, was "son, brother and uncle of kings", being the fourth and youngest son of king Henry IV of England by his first wife, Mary de Bohun, brother to king Henry V of England, and uncle to the...
are listed as good men who came to bad ends for opposing the clergy. Then there is an allusion to the burning of William Tyndale
William Tyndale
William Tyndale was an English scholar and translator who became a leading figure in Protestant reformism towards the end of his life. He was influenced by the work of Desiderius Erasmus, who made the Greek New Testament available in Europe, and by Martin Luther...
's New Testament
New Testament
The New Testament is the second major division of the Christian biblical canon, the first such division being the much longer Old Testament....
in 1526 and Henry V
Henry V of England
Henry V was King of England from 1413 until his death at the age of 35 in 1422. He was the second monarch belonging to the House of Lancaster....
's persecution of Lollards. To defend Lutherans and opposition to clerical possessions from charges of "newfangledness," the husbandman introduces what he takes to be a century-old treatise; i.e., a late-fourteenth-century Lollard text that supports disendowment of the clergy and barring them from secular offices. (The husbandman places it in the time of Richard II.)
Now I promyse the after my iudgement
I haue not hard of soche an olde fragment
Better groundyd on reason with Scripture.
Yf soche auncyent thynges myght come to lyght
That noble men hadde ones of theym a syght
The world yet wolde chaunge perauenture
For here agaynst the clergye cannot bercke
Sayenge as they do thys is a newe wercke
Of heretykes contryued lately.
And by thys treatyse it apperyth playne
That before oure dayes men did compleyne
Agaynst clerkes ambycyon so stately.
The "I" of the husbandman at this point leads into the "I" of the Lollard treatise which is attached at the end with little done to make a transition; it is revised to function as contemporary anti-Roman polemic.
See also
- Dissolution of the MonasteriesDissolution of the MonasteriesThe Dissolution of the Monasteries, sometimes referred to as the Suppression of the Monasteries, was the set of administrative and legal processes between 1536 and 1541 by which Henry VIII disbanded monasteries, priories, convents and friaries in England, Wales and Ireland; appropriated their...
- Piers Plowman TraditionPiers Plowman traditionThe Piers Plowman tradition is made up of about 14 different poetic and prose works from about the time of John Ball and the Peasants Revolt of 1381 through the reign of Elizabeth I and beyond. All the works feature one or more characters, typically Piers, from William Langland's poem Piers Plowman...